I’m curious... what are your biggest frustrations with the sling?
Let’s get the obvious big one out of the way: for the same amount of practice, accuracy is poor compared to something like a bow, a slingshot, or a rifle.

What other things annoy you or frustrate you about slings?

I have my own opinions, but I want to hear what others say before I chime in with my own list. 

My biggest one is probably cords getting tangled up while braiding.  Although I recently made an adjustment to how I set things up, so it's not nearly as big a problem as it was.

Regarding usage, if you get the release cords a little too long, the sling will let you know with a little crack on the hand every time you throw.  Some cordage types seems to be much worse with this than others.

Interesting topic.

1)Rate of fire:  the fact that you put your whole body into motion to perform a powerful throw adds time to reloading and resetting for the next shot.

2)Too many variables that we cannot isolate easily so that we can analyse get feedback and improve upon.

for example ideal sling length : is there ideal sling length for a slinger?(can't realy test because of being used to sling with a given length) does the style change w/ sling length? should it change? is there an ideal style for human mechanics? what is efficient what is effective? which styles/slings are more accurate/consistent yet powerful?
habit and skill will blur the results of experiments.

Other than the obvious I think they’re great, not many complaints from me.
A few minor ones would be
Difference in opinion between slingers on names of throwing styles.
Super smooth spheres in split pouches.
Lots of movement to start the shot, bad in close range hunting.

I agree with all of thethe above but I think the difficulty in maintaining consistency in shots is the biggest problem, related to what Sarosh has said. It's difficult to know what to change or adjust of you feel like you're doing the same movement each time with a big variance in where the ammo goes. It's never going to be like firing a gun although it can be argued that this is a plus. You will always have the drive to get those perfect shots because they are that much rarer (for most of us hobby slingers at least :D). The recent video I put up was so satisfying. Completely unedited from turning on the camera to turning it off, one throw, one perfect hit. Getting that, despite it being surrounded by misses, made going out there worthwhile.

3) We can shoot further than we can see + combined with inconsistency=> we can't get immediate feedback on long range shots.

That's a good point too. The only reason I know I've thrown 190m is that I was throwing on a frozen lake that had a very thin layer of snow on it so the stones were easy to find.

General lack of interest in slinging amongst most people.  I'm so jealous of slingers that have other slingers nearby (meaning close enough to get together).  I've had several of my friends try slinging.  It was a good time for them, but nothing they would do on their own, or suggest as an activity we do together.

I think that's why I like the Online Challenges topic so much.  Keeps me engaged. ;)

What joe said, this also means accessibility issues I'm lucky I can sling where I sling . I constantly look for an alternative range

This is one of the reasons I'm so looking forward to the international competition. It will be the first time I actually will get to sling with other people. A few friends and family have tried a few swings and said "That seems quite difficult" and never wanted anything to do with it again.

Slinging like a pro one day and being awfull the next one, without knowing why.

Retrieving a lead glans. Tennis balls, rusty balls or even stones are somewhat findable. A lead glans, once it's shot, it's usually gone forever.

Mersa wrote on Feb 7^th, 2020 at 10:46pm:

Other than the obvious I think they’re great, not many complaints from me.

100% agree. Focus should not be on the negative aspects, but I started this thread to think about ways to make slinging even better.

Here’s a couple of mine:
It’s hard to shove a sling in a pocket without creating a tangled mess unless you carefully wind the cords first and then you have to unwind them to use it.

The release cord whips things in front of you and can wrap around tree branches.

Trying to find the 'perfect' slinging method. Slinging has so much variation in technique which is both a blessing and a curse...
My criteria:
Powerful (both short and long range), accurate (with different weighted stones), takes up little room, quick to load and shoot, easy to learn, and preferably uses only one hand. Such a method does not seem to exist...

I have tried and practised with every method I can find or read, and I have narrowed it down to my favorites: Balearic, the 'Whip' technique, and the two-hand behind the back overhand (something I came up with by trial and error).

Archaic Arms wrote on Feb 8^th, 2020 at 8:42pm:

Trying to find the 'perfect' slinging method. Slinging has so much variation in technique which is both a blessing and a curse... My criteria: Powerful (both short and long range), accurate (with different weighted stones), takes up little room, quick to load and shoot, easy to learn, and preferably uses only one hand. Such a method does not seem to exist... I have tried and practised with every method I can find or read, and I have narrowed it down to my favorites: Balearic, the 'Whip' technique, and the two-hand behind the back overhand (something I came up with by trial and error).

That last one is the Turkey Throw! RS would be proud.

Hello,
French legislation is bad. I think I am outlaw when I sling.
Yet, I sling absolutely alone !

The legal grey area slings are in isn't good. I understand the argument that it's good it's ignored and goes under the radar but on the other hand it means I could be arrested just because the officer I encounter THINKS it's illegal. Of course, the same thing can happen when carrying legal knives and guns, but I think slings, because they are relatively unknown but can be quickly understood to be at least harmful, are more likely I would guess to gain the attention of someone that doesn't like the idea one bit.

I'm still not entirely sure on the legality of the sling in Finland. Timpa might be able to help with that. Most of the relevant laws haven't been translated into English.

Probably just that it's not widespread. It would be really cool if it was as big in the UK as in the Balearics and there were competitions and events for it.

Kick wrote on Feb 9^th, 2020 at 2:24am:

That last one is the Turkey Throw! RS would be proud.

LOL! ;D

Ammo- some perfect places don't have smooth slingable stones

@ Kick@ TOMBELAINE


On the legality of the sling: it's like the stick(unless there is special law regulating it) , it can be used in many ways walking stick / bo staff/ back scratcher, it's use is not regulated until you become violent with it, the grey area exists only in the minds of law enforcement officers or other paranoid citizens. You can't grow if you are afraid of everything.

The police officer can make your life miserable just because you spoke different language...

i agree with the frustration of not getting pin point accuracy  but i believe the objective is to get it as close as one can.  The bullseye is just for bragging rights ..there are no sights on a sling , so it is our body and mind doing their own thing ..at my age ( 74) i am happy that my body does anything .

Eudave wrote on Feb 11^th, 2020 at 4:37pm:

i agree with the frustration of not getting pin point accuracy  but i believe the objective is to get it as close as one can.  The bullseye is just for bragging rights ..there are no sights on a sling , so it is our body and mind doing their own thing ..at my age ( 74) i am happy that my body does anything .

LOL

Man kann richtig Zielen mit der sling. Ich habe es hier schon ein paar mal erklärt. 😁
Das Zielen funktioniert nur etwas anders.

on the legality of the sling again...
this is the law in my country. :

1. For the purposes of this Law:
"a. Weapon is any machine which, by manufacture, modification, with any propulsion produced in any way, launches a projectile, harmful chemicals or other substances, rays or flames or gases and may cause injury or damage to health or damage to things or cause a fire, and any device, that may in any way cause the above effects. The concept of a weapon includes any firearm and in particular war rifles, machine guns, submachine guns, pistols, handguns, rocket-propelled grenades, heavy weapons, artillery and straight or curved orbits, as well as grenades and mines of any kind.

2. Weapons are also considered to be objects suitable for attack or defense, in particular:
c. Metal punches, metal or non-metal bats, and bats connected with chains or rope.

possession of any weapon is illegal unless you get a permission/ license from local PD (for the particular weapon)

exceptions: most knives for most purposes in home or nature, airguns(18+) and bows(for athletes)

1. the sling is not a weapon because it doesn't propulse a projectile. the muscles offer the propulsion sling is an extension.
2. sling is not by itself an object suitable for attack or defense, a stone or projectile is.

so legally sling is not a weapon, but at the same time a stick, nunchucks, garotte, a stone, an atlatl(even without the dart) are weapons prohibited by the law (unless you get a permission).

sticks and stones of course are used by anyone and the context matters more than the law.

In most cases it comes down to people's perception of the sling I think. Just yesterday I was slinging in my, usual spot and an older lady came over to ask what I was doing. I explained I was using a sling and she then asked what I was throwing. I started to worry a bit because I had used up all the maybe slightly less scary ice balls and had now moved onto the maybe scarier stones. Was she going to freak out and think I was some dangerous hoodlum? Was she going to call the police?

Well, she didn't. She was actually very curious and enthusiastic. Of course David and Goliath came up and she then asked if slinging was some new young person trend ;D I said it was just a hobby I had taken up. She then even asked me to demonstrate for her. I missed all three shots but she was still impressed (luckily I had already said it was very difficult...) and wished me luck in my practice. It really could have gone either way I think, but I think most regular people will be ok with it. There isn't much you can do about those people that will just freak out at the sight of a sling, but as long you explain what you're doing and take all the safety precautions you can, they will at least have less to complain about.

I've never had anyone freak out and i often wear a hood and facemask, I remove them when they approach me , I'm sure it spooks them out a little :P I think the constant whipping sound is more provocative than the view of me slinging.

Oh, so this is another problem with the sling: sound,
it is enjoyable by the slinger but there are some good reasons to silence a sling.(hunting, less provoking)

My sling is pretty silent, not completely but in comparison to one I received in the sith with a cracker, that thing demands attention and even though I’m much more accurate with my sling the cracker makes it sound more dangerous.
I agree that the sling itself is not a weapon, if all you throw is tennis balls you’re going to be just as bad with a good tennis serve and a racquet. I’m my opinion it only becomes a weapon when used as a weapon. Even throwing lead in a suitable situation it’s sporting equipment.

Mersa wrote on Feb 26^th, 2020 at 5:18pm:

My sling is pretty silent

remind me what kind of release knot do you use?

A very tight fisherman. Well worn and well waxed

About legislation.
In France, like all the 27, the legislation today is european.
To have a sling is legal but slinging in a public place is prohibited.
Hunting with a bow is legal if you are a licence. Not for sling.

Samuel wrote on Feb 8^th, 2020 at 12:59pm:

Slinging like a pro one day and being awfull the next one, without knowing why.

too relatable

Slyngorm wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2020 at 12:48pm:

Samuel wrote on Feb 8th, 2020 at 12:59pm: Slinging like a pro one day and being awfull the next one, without knowing why. too relatable

Second day of the contest using stones: 2 points, 0 dianas in two rounds (10 stones).
Third day with tennis balls: 4 points and a diana in one round (5 balls, no misses at all).

For the second day, I was using helicopter which I've practicing a lot recently particularly with stones.
For the third day, I was using Greek style that I haven't practiced a lot at all and barely ever with tennis balls.

*Shrugs*

Often this problem comes up when I overthink my throw. If I go to great lengths at pondering what I am doing wrong and try to correct it, it will ONLY be worse. Then I will ponder more and more in an attempt to correct it, it will be worse and worse, like an evil circle.

The solution: have an overall idea of how you throw, then let go of all your thoughts and FEEL your throw.

Christian, throughout the competition, took a long time to go into his throw compared to a lot of the other competitors. He was doing fig 8 and would wait a few seconds before each shot with the pouch held out and then would still do really well and hit the target very consistently. It was crazy to see because I know if I paused for that long I would overthink it and flub it entirely. I asked him about it and he said he was actually counting a certain number of breathes before each throw which was really interesting. I might have to try that out, focusing on breathing not the throw. I know a few times I was really tense and it was when I relaxed I did well. There's a video of me getting a diana which was just after Jaegoor told me to relax :D It's certainly important to avoid tension.

I didn't get my tension away, which had a significant negative impact on my result.

TOMBELAINE wrote on Feb 27^th, 2020 at 11:37am:

About legislation. In France, like all the 27, the legislation today is european. To have a sling is legal but slinging in a public place is prohibited. Hunting with a bow is legal if you are a licence. Not for sling.

Salut Tombelaine, ça m'intéresse ce que tu annonces là, tu peux mettre un lien vers la législation ? la dernière fois que j'ai regardé, nos frondes ne rentraient pas dans le cadre législatif des armes.

Salut Caldou and the others members.

1) définition d'une arme :

Article R311-1 modifié par Décret n°2018-1195 du 20 décembre 2018 - art. 25
" On entend par :

I.-Armes par nature et munitions

2° Arme : tout objet ou dispositif conçu ou destiné par nature à tuer, blesser, frapper, neutraliser ou à provoquer une incapacité ; "

2) Armes de catégorie D :

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2248

3) Chasse :

http://www.oncfs.gouv.fr/Fiches-juridiques-chasse-ru377/Chasse-a-l-arc-une-pratique-de-plus-en-plus-prisee-ar1220

Peut-être n'ai-je pas tout bien compris ; et peut-être as-tu une lecture différente ? En tout cas, elle est la bienvenue.

I think a sling is not a category D weapon as long as there is no projectile in the pouch.

The trick is WHAT you sling. Hard ammo is prohibited in public, but try slinging tennis or golf balls and you can say it's a sport.
How can we find the "mouth" of a sling, to calculate it's "energy at mouth" ? I'm pretty sure tennis balls are crappy ammo from a power stand point.

Edit : without ammo, a sling is a strap, a belt or whatever you want :p You can even use it as a coat hanger to free your hands ;)


La pierre d'achoppement est le projectile. Tirer des balles en terre, du plomb ou des caillasses est interdit en public en effet. Merci de me l'apprendre, je tâcherai de ne pas me faire prendre la prochaine fois que je tente de remplir l'étang d'à côté.

Mais des balles de golf ou de tennis devraient passer non ? comment on trouve la bouche d'une fronde ? Pour calculer l'énergie à la bouche :)




Note : only bilingual people will be able to follow my way of thinking... good luck, i even lost myself, too late for me now :p

Not agree with Sarosh, a sling is a weapon in the french law.

Sinon, je m'entraine à l'aube sur une grande plage déserte pour des raisons de sécurité ; si quelqu'un vient, je le vois de loin.

out of curiosity are there any golfers here?
what makes a golf club legal?

Sarosh wrote on Mar 14^th, 2020 at 6:32am:

out of curiosity are there any golfers here? what makes a golf club legal?

What makes anything a weapon is intent. Baseball bats, hockey sticks, golf clubs... if you intend to hit a person... it’s a weapon. If you modify it to not be used for sports (like adding spikes), then that’s clear intent. If you are nowhere near an ice rink... it could be argued that a hockey stick is a weapon based on the fact that there’s no other reason to carry on around town... etc.

It's actually the same as a bow. I considered this when I was thinking of taking up archery. If you have a club you're on the way to, have your bow disassembled and packed away then you could well get away with walking straight through a town centre with one.

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Mar 14^th, 2020 at 1:26pm:

What makes anything a weapon is intent.

regarding most stuff sticks, clubs, ropes, chains, knives and probably slings, that's how I understand it too. But there are exceptions e.g. the law states that you can either have a bow for hunting or for sport. If you have it for hunting then there are certain licenses that you should apply for, if it's for sport you should have an athlete's ID and be a member of an archery club, there is no in between, without the right documents it's an illegal weapon and is treated no differently than a shotgun no matter if used/owned/carried in public or private land.
Slingshots are completely illegal even though they are sold and used like in every other part of the world.

So as in the bow situation maybe there is needed athlete's ID for having a golf club too.. or the golf club is in the category " If it's used with the intent to harm, it's a weapon" which probably is but you never know in EU.

This time, I agree with you.
It is not normal that I do something of illegal because the law is not suited to sling.

Well...

Interpreting french laws...
My guess is that slings (if used to sling and not to hang your coat, obviously...) are included in the non-pyrotech launcher category.
As for the muzzle energy, we slingers spend a lot of time guessing/measuring the initial speed of our stones, and even compare KE with those of various other weapons. I guess that answers the "mouth" question that Caldou pointed out.
By the way, the muzzle KE of a sling can be somewhat greater than 20 joules, with makes our little toys a class C weapon, not D...

I have harder time with the word "propulsion"...
"propulser" has two different meanings (at least). If it's interpretated as "bringing the energy in the throw", well, again, a sling is a mere lever and therefore it doesn't "propulse" anything.
On the other hand, "propulser" also means pushing forward, witch is exactly what a sling does. Remember that in France, an atlatl is known as "propulseur", witch would lead to this interpretation.

Obviously, the final word would be the judge's, and it would depend on the circumstances, meaning what you actualy did with your sling, the projectile used etc, but also personal beliefs of the judge, the social status of the slinger, and so on...

Oh and about different projectiles. this piece of law doesn't take this aspect in account at all...

So I try to stick to deserted places when slinging, or i try not to be seen. In some places where people around are quite friendly and well aware of what i do, I try to use slings with the louder crack,
so that everyone knows what's going on. Some persons also taken the good habit to whistle or sing as they come; in that case, I just stop slinging and whistle back.

French law seems quite drastic to me. I don't fear it when slinging, being quite cautious, but I'm well aware that, should I meet other legal problems, my hobby could well be used against me. (basing on personnal and freinds experiences, and, admitedly, my own beliefs about laws in general).

I agree with you , you have to be in front of a judge for any law to apply and then it's up to the judge.
Cops usually don't know the laws... ::)