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General >> General Slinging Discussion >> Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
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Message started by The Celestial Paladin on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 12:52am

Title: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by The Celestial Paladin on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 12:52am
Iím posting this ďrantĒ because Iíve seen people conjecture about this on the internet and kinda found it bizarre that I suddenly remember it for some reason.

I canít imagine this works at all, heck I tried it back in my early days and couldnít say I was impressed.
But maybe somebody could design a projectile that breaks up in flight rather than stuffing a pouch-full of  pebbles or bbs that might as well be nerf darts. Then again I doubt any form of this works to any lethal level, but it might be cool if it could be done.

I donít know, how would you use a sling that could shoot like a shotty? I mean again you might as well grab a fistful of pebbles as if we were to compare a sling to any gun it would be like a handgun in practical use and in the hands of an elite user; a sniper. Point is range, why midi gate a slingís advantage over something that is quite frankly funny looking?

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 1:38am
I suppose you could use a shot cup like a shotgun does to keep the shot together a bit longer. Sounds like something someone here might try out.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by TheJackinati on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 7:12am
I believe that the whistling rounded glandes found at Burnswark were very likely shotgunned out.

A question arises if you were throwing them singularly, Why the round shape? Particularly when Biconical shapes are both very common and likely the dominant style of shot?

There are Greek glandes which are in Biconical shape which have very similar hole placements, and are about 30-40 grams.

I believe they used a round shape, because they were using multiple projectiles, perhaps two or three. Because the Burnswark whistling shot are about ~20 grams each, two or three of them together within a pouch will generally mass about the same as most conventional Roman sling glandes. The round shape won't get in the way like using a biconical would if you were throwing multiples.

Why shotgun these out? Fast-flying lead bits are still something to watch out for, and given that these projectiles will likely whistle, I'd imagine they'd have a psychological effect (Perhaps more so than the buzzing wasp-like sound that a lot of glandes make). I think Shotgunning with lead projectiles is very viable. Much less so with rock or clay. The difference I'd say is with the density.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Rat Man on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 1:07pm
   The idea has been brought up here several times in the past.  A shotgun sling could be effective for slinging at a flock of birds.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 1:19pm
Could also be used as a distraction.† Or a deterrent if you wanted to chase something away, but not actually kill or hurt it.

This gives me an idea.† I'm going to try something in the next few days and will report back on it.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Rat Man on Jan 23rd, 2020 at 1:25pm
† Yes, you could definitely sting a critter without killing or seriously injuring it. Good idea.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Mersa on Jan 24th, 2020 at 7:06am
i think timpa made a scary shotgun sling

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Kick on Jan 24th, 2020 at 7:36am
A load of ball bearings as ammo helped Timpa :D

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Curious Aardvark on Jan 24th, 2020 at 8:25am
Few ways of doing it.
1:) use a captive release 'cup' if you look through the forum there are a number of examples of this.
2) wrap the collection of missiles in tissue paper and the force of the spin will tear the paper and give you a shotgun effect.
3) just have a cupped pouch and load it up.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by timpa on Jan 25th, 2020 at 3:56pm
In the 70s, an old man taught me and my friend to do shotgun slings.
Among other things, here in images:


https://linko-sling.jimdofree.com/erikoislingot-special-slings/

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Jan 27th, 2020 at 11:06am
That's awesome timpa!  I almost have a sling and ammunition ready to do my take on this.  No idea if it's going to work, but hopefully I'll be able to give it a go tomorrow morning before work.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Randomline on Jan 27th, 2020 at 8:55pm
Thanks for sharing!  That's a very interesting looking shot sling.  I'll have to attempt one sometime. 

Does the varied shot size seem to help the pattern (like it is supposed to in bird shot)?

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Jan 28th, 2020 at 11:13pm
Here's an attempt I made with a scatter-sling.† I'm still using ice as usual.† The spread I got was much wider and more random than I expected.† I think I need to get more of a cup shape with the pouch (as was mentioned in other posts) to narrow the spread a bit.

There are a few hits throughout the video, but they're mainly just luck.† The video includes every throw I made (minus the very first one, wasn't setting up the camera if it didn't work at all).

https://youtu.be/iWDxyNu6o0U

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Mersa on Jan 29th, 2020 at 12:04am
Great stuff joe
I think you would ruin a few ducks day with that thing

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Kick on Jan 29th, 2020 at 5:19am
I think it was Timpa that had the design where it opens out from the bottom. That would also concentrate the shot I would think though the timing of the release would be different from a regular sling. Did you use some other ice mold for the balls? I don't know if I've seen the small version.

EDIT: Oh woops Timpa already posted :D But yeah I think opening from the bottom might work better.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Mersa on Jan 29th, 2020 at 5:42am
I wonder if the shotgun sling could be combined with the compound sling???

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Jan 29th, 2020 at 11:10am

Kick wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 5:19am:
Did you use some other ice mold for the balls? I don't know if I've seen the small version.

Indeed!† https://www.amazon.com/Frexmall-Spheres-Food-Grade-Stackable-Cocktail/dp/B072N2X2FQ/ref=sr_1_64?keywords=small+ice+mold&qid=1580313859&sr=8-64
I actually bought these for use with another sling.† That video will be coming up in a week or two.



Mersa wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 5:42am:
I wonder if the shotgun sling could be combined with the compound sling???

You're killing me dude. :D

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Mersa on Jan 29th, 2020 at 6:31pm
Had to put it out there  ;D

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by timpa on Feb 1st, 2020 at 6:48pm

Kick wrote on Jan 29th, 2020 at 5:19am:
I think it was Timpa that had the design where it opens out from the bottom. That would also concentrate the shot I would think though the timing of the release would be different from a regular sling. Did you use some other ice mold for the balls? I don't know if I've seen the small version.

EDIT: Oh woops Timpa already posted :D But yeah I think opening from the bottom might work better.


Yes. If the sling opens from the top (folds) it spreads the stones even wider.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by joe_meadmaker on May 15th, 2020 at 10:37pm
There was another post recently that mentioned shotgun slings.† It was a good reminder for me to finally get my second one done.† This sling much more closely follows timpa's design.† And needless to say, worked much better than the first one I did.† If you watch this and then go back and take a quick look at the first video, it's quite amazing the difference.

https://youtu.be/ECkoZvGB7P4

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Mersa on May 16th, 2020 at 3:39am
Iím still waiting on the combined shotgun compound sling

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by joe_meadmaker on May 19th, 2020 at 7:30pm
I almost hate to say this.  I have a couple of ideas on that, but I don't know if it will work.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Jauke on May 29th, 2020 at 2:52pm
.
IMG_20200529_203829.jpg (262 KB | 6 )

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by joe_meadmaker on May 29th, 2020 at 6:27pm
Did you do any throwing with the pouch loaded like that?  That's the method I was using before trying a pouch that opens at the bottom.  Definitely a wider spread with regular pouch.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Jauke on May 30th, 2020 at 2:51am
Yeah, it works, wide spread, fun sometimes.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by lobohunter on May 30th, 2020 at 3:52pm
I have always have had good luck  with aadvarks no 2
I use a square of paper towel and 10- 12 3/8 in Ball bearings

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Sarosh on Aug 24th, 2020 at 3:14pm
https://youtu.be/qSgGlLUZb-E

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by timpa on Aug 24th, 2020 at 4:54pm
Sarosh: They opened well!

Here's a little bit of the same (Shuriken Bola in sling)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70qFogtQq28

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by timpa on Aug 24th, 2020 at 4:56pm
And slinging Bola chains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X18epKtllNQ

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by IronGoober on Aug 24th, 2020 at 8:06pm
Sarosh, very interesting. Nice analysis of the flight and release characteristics.

I think you should use this for a computer animation. The video of the projectile coming toward the camera made me think of creepy hand reaching toward the target. You could animate  a slinger-mage slinging spells toward the doom of their opponent. Lol. Sorry, maybe that was too much nerdiness for this thread.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Sarosh on Aug 25th, 2020 at 2:19am

timpa wrote on Aug 24th, 2020 at 4:56pm:
And slinging Bola chains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X18epKtllNQ


that bandsaw blade bola is the most scary , spring steel makes the most unexpected cuts.


IronGoober wrote on Aug 24th, 2020 at 8:06pm:
Sarosh, very interesting. Nice analysis of the flight and release characteristics.

I think you should use this for a computer animation. The video of the projectile coming toward the camera made me think of creepy hand reaching toward the target. You could animate† a slinger-mage slinging spells toward the doom of their opponent. Lol. Sorry, maybe that was too much nerdiness for this thread.


Thanks!

I was thinking of calling it "Eagle Claw" ammo but I think it's better to go with common terminology.
As for animations I would like to learn to use blender but I have a lot of other stuff I need to learn and do. Maybe an animator could do this, 3d animation would be awesome https://www.youtube.com/c/Astartes40k/videos

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Kick on Aug 25th, 2020 at 3:48pm
That ammo is really cool. I have a few bolas but haven't tried slinging them... yet...

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Slyngorm on Sep 2nd, 2020 at 2:26pm
Following timpas design would a cup with a smaller opening concentrate the ammunition?

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Sep 2nd, 2020 at 2:40pm
It wouldn't base on the small amount of experimentation I've done with this.† A smaller opening would mean a longer period of time for all ammunition to clear the sling.† What is needed is for all ammunition to be out of the sling as quickly as possible.

On the other side of that, a really big opening will have a bigger variation in the release point as it relates to the sling for each individual projectile.† So it's a task of finding a balance between the two.

Again, that's just my take from a few sessions with a shotgun sling (I called it a scatter-sling :)).† Would be interested in hearing other thoughts.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Slyngorm on Sep 2nd, 2020 at 3:36pm

joe_meadmaker wrote on Sep 2nd, 2020 at 2:40pm:
A smaller opening would mean a longer period of time for all ammunition to clear the sling.  What is needed is for all ammunition to be out of the sling as quickly as possible.


That completely makes sense actually. You should definitely experiment further with this (if you want of course).

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Sep 2nd, 2020 at 5:04pm
I definitely will at some point.† The first sling I tried was pretty normal, with just a very large pouch.† It had a really wide spread.† After that I switched to one based on timpa's design and the spread was much more concentrated.

I had some adjustments planned for the sling but haven't made them yet.† I should get that done.† It's a fun sling to use.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by timpa on Sep 2nd, 2020 at 7:01pm
This I have not yet filmed with the ball queue.
Gotta film.
30cmpuikko_001.jpg (125 KB | 2 )

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Sep 2nd, 2020 at 7:12pm
That looks great timpa!

A couple questions.† What is the internal diameter?† And how far up do you normally fill it with ammunition for each throw?† If you haven't used it yet, you might not have an answer to the second question yet.

Looking forward to that video!

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Slyngorm on Sep 5th, 2020 at 8:15am
What if you only filled as much ammunition into the cup as to cover the lid, without any lying on top of each other? Wouldn't it then release at the same time even in a wide pouch?

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Sep 5th, 2020 at 10:06am
Yes.† At least in theory.† But when the sling is being rotated, the ammunition at the leading side of the sling will be slightly ahead of the ammunition at the trailing side.† So when the ammunition is released, all the individual projectiles will be coming out at a slightly different release angle.† This angle difference should be small, but the wider the cup of the pouch, the larger this angle difference will be.

Another thing to keep in mind is that as the sling rotates, all the ammunition is pushing against each other.† So when it is released, there will be a lot of contact between projectiles causing changes in velocity for most of them.

But that gives me an idea.† What if the pouch of the sling was set up as a grid with individual chambers for each projectile.† So the projectile couldn't have any contact with each other until after release.† I wonder what effect that would have.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by IronGoober on Sep 5th, 2020 at 6:00pm

joe_meadmaker wrote on Sep 5th, 2020 at 10:06am:
What if the pouch of the sling was set up as a grid with individual chambers for each projectile.


Oooh, that is an interesting idea. I'd like to see that.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Sep 5th, 2020 at 9:10pm
It will be coming (hopefully) in the not too distance future.  I've been thinking about it today and have a couple ideas on how to do it.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by timpa on Sep 7th, 2020 at 4:43pm
@Joe:
inner diameter 35mm/1,4in and length 20cm/8in.
I have thrown mainly torpedoes.
But it works well with balls too.
Puikkolinko.jpg (155 KB | 2 )

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Mersa on Sep 7th, 2020 at 6:23pm
You throw some scary stuff timpa

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by timpa on Sep 9th, 2020 at 3:50pm
the scarier, the better. :D
I don't like tennis balls.

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Sep 9th, 2020 at 6:03pm
Iím sure you can find a way to make tennis balls dangerous Timpa

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Albion Slinger on Sep 9th, 2020 at 11:26pm

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Sep 9th, 2020 at 6:03pm:
Iím sure you can find a way to make tennis balls dangerous Timpa

Will probably come back with a tennis ball filled with cement. ;D

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by Caldou on Sep 10th, 2020 at 6:05am

Albion Slinger wrote on Sep 9th, 2020 at 11:26pm:

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Sep 9th, 2020 at 6:03pm:
Iím sure you can find a way to make tennis balls dangerous Timpa

Will probably come back with a tennis ball filled with cement. ;D


With nails and razor blades (and toothbrushes...)

Title: Re: Shotgun slings? Shotslings?
Post by timpa on Sep 10th, 2020 at 4:56pm
Like this  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyPo1XlxoFo

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