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General >> Project Goliath - The History of The Sling >> Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
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Message started by Teg on Dec 15th, 2019 at 4:47pm

Title: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Teg on Dec 15th, 2019 at 4:47pm
I found some time to continue my work on the Egyptian slings (see http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1515612008/0 for a summary). In 2017, I uploaded a “no-tools” approach on how to make these slings (http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1505851909). However, I wasn’t absolutely happy with this method, as it is quite a tedious process.

In the meantime, I found some inspiration in the book “Sling braiding – traditions and techniques” by Rodrick Owen and Terry Newhouse Flynn (http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1516755231), as well as an exhibition in a local museum, where a Tibetan sling was shown (Ur-do: Steine schleudern, Josepha Graf). The technique I stumbled over was “weaving with sticks”. It is reasonably fast and requires only a very minimal set of tools. You need about 30 little sticks, string, a knife and optionally a needle. The work time is, give or take, on the order of 3 hours.

I put together an article which documents some of my work until now (see appended pdf). It outlines different variations of this technique. Consider it not a straightforward tutorial on how to make this or that specific sling, but more as a collection of ideas on what could be done with this technique. During my experimentation, I found that it might be a viable approach to reproduce other slings as well (Cortaillod / Corcelettes http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1534190532).

I found that especially the Lahun sling in Manchester can be approached very well with this technique. However, I will not make a direct comparison with it to keep the article somewhat concise. There are just way too many small variations, some of which I know of, but just haven’t found the time to try them out. If you are interested in attempting an exact reproduction, I recommend reading my analysis (the first link) and go from there.

So feel free to experiment with this technique. It‘s actually quite beginner friendly. And, most importantly, don’t forget to post pictures of your work 😉.

Enjoy!

Teg / Thomas E. Gartmann


http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=Stick_twining_-_15122019_lowres.pdf (6015 KB | 130 )
Weaving_with_sticks___lowres.JPG (196 KB | 34 )

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by TheJackinati on Dec 16th, 2019 at 2:44am
So Tibetan sling pouches are made in roughly the same way?

Well then... I might have to give this stick weaving a try!

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Sarosh on Dec 16th, 2019 at 3:35am
Nice! you used Latex for the document?

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Kick on Dec 16th, 2019 at 3:47am
This is fantastic! I've tried weaving and I've had a lot of problems with it (probably due to my choice of material more than anything) but this looks really simple and clearly explained. Another project for the project pile :D

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Teg on Dec 16th, 2019 at 2:43pm
Thanks for the replies!


TheJackinati wrote on Dec 16th, 2019 at 2:44am:
So Tibetan sling pouches are made in roughly the same way?


Sort of. See the appended picture. You use just two strings, which replace sticks consecutively.
I did something similar also in Figure 42.
Afterwards, you sew it to the braids, if I'm not mistaken.

Source: Graf, Josepha, Ur-do: Steine schleudern in: Begegnung – Spur – Karte : das
ethnografische Erbe von Heinrich Harrer und Peter Aufschnaiter, Stuttgart, Zürich:
Arnoldsche Art Publishers, Völkerkundemuseum der Universität Zürich (2018)



Sarosh wrote on Dec 16th, 2019 at 3:35am:
you used Latex for the document?

Yes, I did. I'm not going to bother with Word when I have about 50 pictures with text ;D



Kick wrote on Dec 16th, 2019 at 3:47am:
I've tried weaving and I've had a lot of problems with it (probably due to my choice of material more than anything)


The material choice here is not so critical. Also, tensioning is way easier than when weaving without a proper loom. Give it a go  ;)
Tibet_sample.JPG (73 KB | 25 )

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by TheJackinati on Dec 17th, 2019 at 4:06am
Whelp, looks like it's high-time I get some wooden sticks.

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Kick on Mar 5th, 2020 at 4:23pm
I finally have this a go and... well... mine sucks :D Just as was said, material choice is crucial. Again I've used too thin material for weaving which has left large gaps and holes on the side where it wasn't possible to tension it any tighter because of the width of the bamboo sticks. I've ordered thicker jute (in different colours as well) that should male for a much better pouch. The cords were just finished quickly with a braid just so I could call this one done. I have learnt a lot from this so the next ones should be much better :D

Photos will be resized in the morning.
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tumblr_449305c166d90f353918d28e18abe51e_dcfde068_1280.jpg (323 KB | 18 )
tumblr_cda32a9c9bd98f7fb226445ce8884d9d_0fc26255_1280.jpg (314 KB | 15 )

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Teg on Mar 5th, 2020 at 6:06pm
Kick: consider adding two or three lines, before reducing a row. Then you can still use thin string if you want. The Lahun sling also adds multiple lines per row. If you want, compress a bit less to fine adjust.
The sling i see is quite evenly woven. Just too narrow. One mistake if i see correctly, when replacing the sticks with string.
Gaps in the side, i.e. some space in the rows, are not a huge issue in my opinion, as long as the string is strong enough. The original Lahun sling also has some gaps. The lahun sling uses slightly thicker thread in this place.

Can the guide be improved somewhere? How long did it take you to make the sling?

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Teg on Mar 5th, 2020 at 6:10pm
And how difficult did you find the process? Easier or harder than your loom attempts?

Looking forward to your feedback  :)

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Kick on Mar 6th, 2020 at 6:22am

Teg wrote on Mar 5th, 2020 at 6:06pm:
Kick: consider adding two or three lines, before reducing a row. Then you can still use thin string if you want. The Lahun sling also adds multiple lines per row. If you want, compress a bit less to fine adjust.
The sling i see is quite evenly woven. Just too narrow. One mistake if i see correctly, when replacing the sticks with string.
Gaps in the side, i.e. some space in the rows, are not a huge issue in my opinion, as long as the string is strong enough. The original Lahun sling also has some gaps. The lahun sling uses slightly thicker thread in this place.

Can the guide be improved somewhere? How long did it take you to make the sling?


Thanks for the tips! I think it came out ok but I know I can make nicer. It did turn out quite narrow but still usable. The main problem is I also want it to look nice :D I've learnt a lot from it.

It took me only a few hours which, considering I made mistakes and had to redo some rows and this being my first time trying it, was really quite quick. I was thinking I would be spending days on it. I think the guide is clear. If anything was slightly unclear in reading it, actually working on the sling cleared up any questions.


Teg wrote on Mar 5th, 2020 at 6:10pm:
And how difficult did you find the process? Easier or harder than your loom attempts?


Well when I tried the loom, I was using WAY too thin material. It was incredibly fiddly and ended up a tangled mess that took multiple hours for a very poor result. For this one I was using thicker jute which made things easier but I do think it was easier overall than the loom. If nothing else it's more portable and compact :D I might try again with the loom with this jute as I think that would work better because it would be woven onto the jute itself so there wouldn't be any gaps, but I'll definitely use the stick method again with the material I've ordered.

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Teg on Mar 6th, 2020 at 1:04pm
Thanks for the feedback!  :)

With twining, the sticks are most probably faster. With a plain weave, my money would be on a loom. But I have never actually recorded the exact times it would take for each method to make the same sling.

Personally, I find the gaps visible in the sides actually aesthetically pleasing. But maybe I just looked too much at the Lahun sling  ;D.

To my knowledge, the gaps and their appearance are influenced by the following factors:
- Ratio of distance between the rows and diameter of the string.
Distance between rows: Stick diameter when stick weaving; inverse of warp density on a loom (How many mm from one warp to the next on the loom). (it's roughly equivalent, give or take a factor to account for the thickness of the sticks etc.)
- The amount of tensioning. If you tension a lot, the gaps will show more.

I.e. if you want less gaps with the current string, go for a high warp density. This is indeed easier to achieve on a loom than with sticks, as you can reduce the stick size only to a certain limit, which still allows to replace the sticks easily with string.

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Kick on Mar 6th, 2020 at 1:22pm

Teg wrote on Mar 6th, 2020 at 1:04pm:
if you want less gaps with the current string, go for a high warp density. This is indeed easier to achieve on a loom than with sticks, as you can reduce the stick size only to a certain limit, which still allows to replace the sticks easily with string.


This is what I was thinking as well. I've got 4 ply jute on it's way which should be that bit thicker. I hope to do some more experimenting with the sticks and on the loom so I'll be posting again pretty soon I imagine :D

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Kick on Mar 6th, 2020 at 5:42pm
Tried out the loom again. It did not go well. At all. Pictures and story will come tomorrow. All I'll say is twining over sticks is the way to go and I know how I'll make it work now. I really can't wait for that new jute to arrive...

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Kick on Mar 7th, 2020 at 9:46am
Yeah... It's always in the tightening that it goes wrong. One of the strands broke and... it is fixable, but it's really not worth it. Twining over sticks at least gave me a recognisable sling pouch. I need to completely review how I use the loom I think.  The next woven pouch I attempt will be with the sticks but I do like the idea of using a loom even if I've had nothing but trouble from it :D
tumblr_0575936fb0ad863c7fb77d78715d43c6_306b73d3_540.jpg (54 KB | 8 )
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Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Teg on Mar 7th, 2020 at 1:29pm
Kick: Your problem starts before tightening. Check your weaving and compare with e.g. the excellent tutorial by Timothy Potter (it's sometimes online, sometimes not. But two days ago it was. Look for Tut tutorial 2, step 2, check the pictures).

There is too much tension on the weft and not enough beating while weaving.
Check my answer to Sarosh here: http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1515612008/11#11
The fabric should already be compacted and weft-faced on the loom. Otherwise tightening will be difficult, require a lot of force or become outright impossible, as you experienced.

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Kick on Mar 7th, 2020 at 4:02pm
This is exactly what I needed to look up :D Thanks! I tried to compact them together but they just wouldn't budge. I think the warp is too dense and tight. I've been wanting to make a new loom as this one isn't all that good and some of the nails got pulled so much they came loose. Who would have guessed cardboard wouldn't make a permanent loom...? What sort of distances between the nails have you found to work?

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Teg on Mar 7th, 2020 at 5:09pm

Kick wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 4:02pm:
What sort of distances between the nails have you found to work?


I try not to use looms :D If I have to, mine are very often .... well... stiff cardboard with slits. Sometimes improvised backstrap-like contraptions. I had my go at peg looms once or twice years ago and that was it.

It will depend on your string diameter what you can get away with and your skills. There is no definite answer. Just leave more than 1 weft string diameter between the warps (obviously  :D).
Or fix the first row with twining. That gives a decent gauge. I recommend to experiment a bit and to make a sample. On cardboard if need be ;)

The trick is really in correct weft tension and beating. Potter describes it very well. Regarding peg looms and using them, he is a better source than I am on this matter.


Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Kick on Mar 28th, 2020 at 7:37am
Second attempt! I'm much happier with this one. This was using thicker jute and came out much better... but also huge :D I think now, having learnt a lot from these attempts, I'm going to combine what I did with the first one with what I did with this one. A diamond shape with this thicker material with fewer sticks should turn out great. Lots of time to experiment so let's see how attempt 3 goes :D
tumblr_0122fb7354608ad0704d4368b46534b5_9a5b7979_640.jpg (68 KB | 7 )

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Teg on Mar 28th, 2020 at 9:30am
Well done! You are visibly improving your work!

Looking forward to number 3  :).

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Caldou on Apr 22nd, 2020 at 6:03am
This is my set-up... and how to use a hammer to weave !


Yes, I didn't buy the "no tool" approach, I like my weaving needles and keeping (some) sanity while weaving :p

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Sarosh on Apr 22nd, 2020 at 8:37am
you use needle to pass the thread around the sticks?
that would take 6h+ only for the weaving  :-?

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Caldou on Apr 22nd, 2020 at 10:08am
Hey, I have the time to do it this way ! If it's finished too early, I will not be able to try it, so I take my time :p

But I already promised the author I will try to be more true to the modus operandi next time ;)

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Caldou on Apr 23rd, 2020 at 5:36pm
Please note that at point 3.1, you need some quality skewers, low cost one eat your string and you can't really split them to clamp the needle at point 3.8.

Also : don't use 2 colors for the twining, use 1 after the other, to make strips, it will look nicer (picture soon)

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Teg on Apr 24th, 2020 at 9:55am
Thanks for the feedback! I will add your comments to version 2 of the document when I can spare some time.


Caldou wrote on Apr 22nd, 2020 at 10:08am:
But I already promised the author I will try to be more true to the modus operandi next time


The author highly welcomes to see variations of the modus operandi ;)


Caldou wrote on Apr 23rd, 2020 at 5:36pm:
Please note that at point 3.1, you need some quality skewers, low cost one eat your string and you can't really split them to clamp the needle at point 3.8.


I always split the sticks before starting to weave. I usually break one or two sticks either way. When I can't split the sticks, I twine slightly looser, so I can push the sticks easier out with the needle. Sometimes it's possible to punch the needle in the end of the sticks nevertheless and pull them through.
Eating the string: Not such an issue with linnen/flax/hemp, but I guess you know that. Shorter sticks also help.


I'm looking forward to your pictures!


Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Caldou on Apr 26th, 2020 at 3:26pm

Teg wrote on Apr 24th, 2020 at 9:55am:
I'm looking forward to your pictures!



Here they are :
the pouch :


it's a bit tiny :


But I may have overdone it with the cords :



I will have to find some nicer skewers and a way to double the strands nicely, to get strips of color each row.

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Teg on Apr 26th, 2020 at 5:33pm
Thanks for the pics!

As discussed in private, here is a "quick-and-dirty-Sunday-evening-method" to make these stripes. I guess there are also other methods...

Caution: This method will produce a slightly bulky rim. So when tensioning too hard, you might run into "distortions", but I haven't tested that.

The basic idea is to pass the unused threads along the sticks, then twine over them to hide them. I let the pictures speak for themselves.

1_013.jpg (261 KB | 7 )
2_009.jpg (153 KB | 7 )
3_007.jpg (215 KB | 9 )
4_002.jpg (170 KB | 6 )
5_002.jpg (229 KB | 7 )
6_003.jpg (198 KB | 5 )

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Teg on Apr 26th, 2020 at 5:35pm
Enjoy!
7_001.jpg (209 KB | 9 )
8_003.jpg (252 KB | 7 )
9.jpg (228 KB | 13 )
10.jpg (275 KB | 13 )

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by TOMBELAINE on May 14th, 2020 at 8:14am
Thank you Teg, for your patient instructions.
Small faults but I'm happy anyway.
DSCN4405.JPG (277 KB | 6 )

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Teg on May 14th, 2020 at 2:02pm

TOMBELAINE wrote on May 14th, 2020 at 8:14am:
Thank you Teg, for your patient instructions.


You're welcome!
Thank you for trying it out and showing the result!

De rien!
Merci pour essayer a faire une fronde de cette maniere et la montrer!

Title: Re: Sling Making by Twining and Weaving over Sticks
Post by Kick on May 29th, 2020 at 4:30am
I finally finished off my third twining over sticks sling. I finished the pouch a while ago but only just got around to finishing the cords. Turned out not too bad but I think I can do better. Learnt a lot in the process of making this one.
tumblr_484012854924704b3f04598018202c82_e3ce0ea0_640.jpg (68 KB | 5 )
tumblr_43deea0c576ce098b606f7cf5d6f12b5_5bb61948_640.jpg (67 KB | 6 )

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