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General >> General Slinging Discussion >> Byzantine technique or what?
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Message started by Willem208 on Aug 12th, 2019 at 9:42am

Title: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by Willem208 on Aug 12th, 2019 at 9:42am
I thought the Byzantine technique was where you faced away from the target and then spun around throwing with a sidearm. But I think I am wrong as one of David Morningstar's videos does a totally different thing. So what is the Byzantine technique and how do you do it?
In the attached video is me doing what I think is a Byzantine technique. ;)
And another video from someone else: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bwl7MBJlNoU/?igshid=17py59h6gn1dd
http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=Byzantine__10-08-2019_3.mp4 (7239 KB | 20 )

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by JudoP on Aug 12th, 2019 at 2:01pm
It's a bit arbitrary- as far as I've heard and seen byzantine is a single overhead spin from hanging pouch. The guam guy has a windup so doesn't satisfy this, I would probably classify it as a balearic style throw.

However, the mechanics of the throw are very similar or identical. It's potentially unhelpful to split these techniques, as it's basically sidearm in both cases, the difference is one uses a long swing from hanging (the initial facing away is an adaptation to get more out of this IMO, which is less needed when you have the momentum from initial swings).

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by Willem208 on Aug 13th, 2019 at 12:40am
Thanks for your input! I know that names are not very important but I am just curious as always! Oh and the so-called Byzantine technique is very powerful I think.
BTW JudoP how are you liking the little sling I sent you? Sorry that I haven't posted pics of yours yet! I should get to it some time soon.  ;)

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by Sarosh on Aug 13th, 2019 at 11:29am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WADQStF-Rq4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvmpyzL4wd4

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by Curious Aardvark on Aug 13th, 2019 at 12:18pm
byzantine is an overhead release - not sidearm.

Pretty simple.

face forward, turn your waist as far rtound as you can.
sling comes up, goes once round your head and release in a vertical overhand throw.

By bringing your waist and legs into the turn, you can generate a surprising amount of power.

Why is it called byzantine ?
I have absolutely no idea :noidea:

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by Kick on Aug 13th, 2019 at 4:13pm

Sarosh wrote on Aug 13th, 2019 at 11:29am:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WADQStF-Rq4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvmpyzL4wd4


I didn't realise Jesus Vega was still around. To go slightly off topic for a second, this is a really fascinating sling design that I'm definitely going to have a go at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NQEj4-GeTQ

I recenty got 100m of jute and I think a braided version could work out really well. Another project for the pile...

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by joe_meadmaker on Aug 13th, 2019 at 7:29pm
@Kick - Agreed, that sling is fantastic!  Thanks for posting the link.  I'd like to give that a try as well.

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Aug 14th, 2019 at 12:57am
Very interesting design: simple pouch and a sharp, clean release! Itís very similar to a triangular pouch design.

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by Willem208 on Aug 14th, 2019 at 2:03pm
Interesting sling there. Now other than the whole confusing name story, who watched the video that I attached? How is my technique there? I like to throw hard haha.† ;D 8-)

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by Kick on Aug 14th, 2019 at 3:01pm

Willem208 wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 2:03pm:
Interesting sling there. Now other than the whole confusing name story, who watched the video that I attached? How is my technique there? I like to throw hard haha.† ;D 8-)


Good throw! I don't see the point of facing away from the target though. You can do the same movement facing forwards which would help accuracy.

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by Willem208 on Aug 15th, 2019 at 12:42am
Thanks Kick. Facing away from the taeget is another technique. I get a lot of power like this. :)

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by Kick on Aug 15th, 2019 at 2:41am
I face away for distance shots because my accuracy always tanks :D It's always a balancing act between power and accuracy.

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by Curious Aardvark on Aug 15th, 2019 at 7:02am
willem - your video is just a bog standard sidearm with a half body rotation.

For a byzantine throw your feet face FORWARD, and you turn through your waist.
As with most martial arts, you use the waist to generate power.
By turning your whole body, you don't get that power and you also lose the stability of a solid forward facing stance.

And yeah jesus vega is still around and still winning competitions.

never would have imagined him with a non-balearic standard sling though.

And yeah, he's like jaegoor - those guys really are that accurate, with any ammo and pretty much any sling.†

With a byzantine throw the rotation AND release are both over head.
Which is why it's not a sidearm technique.
It's a good technique for heavy ammo as you keep a straight arm to reduce stress on the elbow and you pull the sling up and round and release in one smooth movement.
Done well, it's faster than than the 'apache', with more power and accuracy. But the same, low profile, starting position.

The guam guy's throw is also sideram.

Even the guam lads who use an over head windup - like Roman de la cruz, tend to go for sidearm releases.

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by Willem208 on Aug 15th, 2019 at 8:23am
Interesting points CA. Thanks! I also throw a lot of sidearm. So you are saying that Byzantine is almost like a helicopter with only one movenent and rotation? Like a sidearm with a high release? I love throwing sidearm though. :)

Title: Re: Byzantine technique or what?
Post by TheJackinati on Aug 15th, 2019 at 8:28am
Honestly I usually do a Byzantine wind-up, but sometimes throw with a sidearm, so I wouldn't say that Byzantine is always an overhead style, though it is generally used in that way.

I just personally think that the way you wind up with a Byzantine works well with me, as I seem to be most accurate with a single-rotation throwing style.

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