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Message started by Sarosh on Jul 18th, 2019 at 4:25am

Title: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Sarosh on Jul 18th, 2019 at 4:25am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA77zsJ31nA

So many things can go wrong with this.
Now AI can literally penetrate our ranks. It will be so funny that one day antivirus will be able to delete humans or human thoughts. :-X

well the good that can come out of this is that we realise how pointless life is and just do our pointless tasks more joyfully .

I wonder what will be the value of practical training (e.g. for slinging and sports), IQ and money, in a society which half the population uses this device everyday.

we could either work as bees in a honeycomb and build a new babel tower or split into homo sapiens and powerful superhybrids which with a wrong upgrade can turn from rulers to slaves.

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Morphy on Jul 18th, 2019 at 1:21pm
I'm firmly in the Sam Harris camp on AI. AI is the biggest threat to humans bar none. Climate change, nuclear war are all laughable compared to it, because unlike those other things it's both inevitable and no one has a clue what will happen or how to control it. Not even the slightest idea. In that sense it's like the event horizon of a black hole. Our minds are not capable of comphrending the motivations of something with 1000+ iq. They are literally creating something with god-like intelligence and hoping it's on our side. 

I think the end result will be a hive mind for those who take it. People will lose all sense of self and become nothing more than an annex to AI. Walking vacation homes for the central AI if you will. 

That being said I'm not terribly worried about it. The next 50 years are going to be a bumpy ride. There's no stopping it. Once generalized AI becomes a thing most jobs cease to exist. Robotics technology is advancing at a break neck speed to provide the hardware for the ai software. Universal basic income will become a reality. I really feel bad for highschool kids looking to go into med school. AI is already a far better diagnostician than most humans, and that's 90% of a GPs job.  If they do make it through school they will have maybe 10-15 years to pay off their debt and get as much money as they can. Amazon's Alexa is already being set up to diagnose in home. Things are changing so fast.

Anyways I'm rambling. It's a very interesting subject.

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Rat Man on Jul 18th, 2019 at 2:28pm
   We will become The Borg.  Cell phones were the first step.  Brainchip implants will happen this century.  I'm glad I won't be here to see it.

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Jul 27th, 2019 at 8:12am
I think itís the other way around Morphy. AI is another one of manís narcissistic ways of replicating himself. We wonít be enslaved or absorbed by it any more than we are lured or tempted by a mirror. The underlying problem is our vanity, not the technology that manifests it.

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Curious Aardvark on Jul 27th, 2019 at 9:07am
Actually most existing AI's sole purpose is to sell us things :-)

The AI neural networks currently in place and seriously in contention for the title of 'skynet' are owned by: amazon, apple, & google.

Godlike ?
Well mankind has always made it's gods in it's own image. So no reason to wipe us out.

I don't think the matrix is happening any time soon.

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Morphy on Jul 27th, 2019 at 7:45pm

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jul 27th, 2019 at 8:12am:
I think itís the other way around Morphy. AI is another one of manís narcissistic ways of replicating himself. We wonít be enslaved or absorbed by it any more than we are lured or tempted by a mirror. The underlying problem is our vanity, not the technology that manifests it.


It's a vast subject. However comparing it to a mirror might be a little shortsighted. I do actually agree with you that (I'll change it a little) AI "at it's best" is mankinds narcissistic way of replicating himself. I say at it's best because assuming it does literally NOTHING but what we tell it to it's still a source of power and will, without a shred of doubt, eventually be used in a corrupt manner due to human nature. We know this. History teaches us repeatedly there is no other possible outcome than the above. It may do alot of good as well but there's no way to get past that fact.

Keep in mind generalized AI is not a thing yet so there is simply no way to know what it  will end up doing. "god-like" with a little g, is by no means an exaggeration. Much smarter people than myself have acknowledged this as an inevitability. We may not know exactly in what direction it will go or to what extent. We certainly can't know any motivation it might have, but few people that are considered experts in this subject discount that compared to us it will be basically god-like. 

Again, we aren't talking about the very specilized AI we have now. Hell the most advanced chess computers are like demi-gods already in one thing. No human, anywhere, can hope to beat them at this point. When generalized AI happens and there's no reason to believe it wont,  not only will computers become like this for most things they will have the ability to rewrite their own code at the unbelievably advanced rate only a computer can do. That's when the real explosion of AI happens. And happens quick.

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Rat Man on Jul 29th, 2019 at 8:21pm
An excellent 1970 movie that dealt with this subject.  A defense computer gets too big for his britches and takes over the world. 
http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1563438302

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Jul 30th, 2019 at 9:27am
This is by far the best rendition of the robot apocalypse meme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BcFHvEpP7A

@Morphy, speaking as someone who works with AI, I predict that todayís AI will probably not generalize but will go the other way. If anything the trend will be to make the neural networks more transparent and auditable, because we would never trust them in critical applications unless they are fully understood.

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Curious Aardvark on Jul 30th, 2019 at 1:24pm
talk to your: phone, tv, smart box - generalised AI IS what we currently have.

Chess computers are not nor have they ever been AI.
Intelligence is not required to play chess. It's sheer calculation - nothing else.

There is No random element in chess - so just memory and calculation are all that is required, intelligence is only necessary for game that has a random element and thus infinite options.
Chess only has finite options - albeit a lot of them.


Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Morphy on Jul 30th, 2019 at 2:38pm
Chess computers are not nor have they ever been AI.
Intelligence is not required to play chess. It's sheer calculation - nothing else.


Alphazero, an AI playing "chess computer" taught itself chess in a matter of hours from scratch and beat†the brute-force world champion chess computers easily. So, no that is incorrect.

As to the other points, it's worth doing research on. Plenty of better spokesman out there than myself.


NOOC, I hope you are right. Im sure you're aware of the two AI's that within a short time of talking to each other created their own language so only they could understand each other. I was listening awhile back to Sam Harris on the subject and he talked about potential ways of testing out the motivation of AI and some of the safe guards that would be needed. It reminded me somewhat of people working with bioweapons or deadly viruses. The need to safeguard them from getting out into the real world is just as critical. The only difference being they can "think".




Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by JudoP on Jul 30th, 2019 at 8:36pm
Oh boy. Before I got into this field my thoughts lined up more with the Sam Harris's and Elon Musk's, but now having been pretty close to AI research for a couple years, and with many colleagues in it now I am much less concerned. Demystifying the tech makes it a lot less scary indeed.

Firstly, as far as I can see general AI is a far off pipe dream, hell, nobody even seems to bother working on it, the only place I hear about it is the internet, literally I can't even remember seeing any AGI work in academia ever, unless I deliberately search for it, and then it's usually just a theoretical perspective, rarely anything with even the most rudimentary function. Also smart devices are certainly not general AI, they have multiple types of narrow AI in them, eg- face recognition, speech to text etc. A phone with general AI could learn all those things and continue to learn a wide variety of tasks as well as making plans, reasoning and other stuff.

Pretty much all AI today is essentially tools that process data and move around their parameters according to the data they process. These are highly effective for certain tasks (mostly data processing) and could certainly change the world. However, they are certainly not liable to suddenly overwrite their programming or do anything that requires agency. AI like this is not an entity, it's just a method of computing and data processing. The chances of a cutting edge neural network sprouting agency are exactly equivalent to your dishwasher sprouting agency, that is to say- zero.

I have to just quickly go for the two AI's 'talking' to each other story too, the AI that facebook allegedly shut down because they were 'scared'. The hype around this springs from what can only be described as abysmal, trash tier reporting and talking about the AI like they are making their own decisions or trying to deceive their masters. You will be glad to know that this story is absolute rubbish. The truth is when you have two programs which are programmed to try to spew sentences back and forth you (like with the vast majority of failed experiments) often start to generate gibberish. To treat this as if the AI's were deliberately conspiring is irresponsible reporting in the extreme. Again, these things crunch numbers according to well known rules, they have the agency of your dishwasher.

If you want a good laugh read the Harry Potter AI generated chapter, it illustrates how little the AI understands the actual text and how it's basically just a data spewer trying to replicate the patterns that we feed into it. It captures JKs style... somewhat, but has the structure and narrative of an acid trip fever dream.

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Morphy on Jul 31st, 2019 at 10:06pm
@Judo Thankfully we have well versed people like yourself and NOOC to keep people like myself from spinning into complete nihilism.   ;D

One thing I wonder about is how likely we are to even see such generalized AI if it is created. I have always thought that with a technology such as this the very moment it is created it will go black immediately. The secerecy would make the Manhattan project look like the front page of the New York Times. That, too me, is the only reasonable response to creating a "genie-in-the-bottle" tech.


Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Aug 1st, 2019 at 4:02pm
@Morphy, that scenario makes the highly unlikely assumption that the hypothetical AI singularity is created in some secretive government lab with the ability to keep things quiet. I think Silicon Valley is probably closer to the bleeding edge of AI than the super secret squirrel laboratories full of operators operating operationally, but letís just pretend youíre right... theoretically, such an AI super being would be indistinguishable from humans online, so you may not even need to make it disappear to keep things quiet. You just need to give it a Facebook account and set it loose in political discussion groups where ďthe other sideď (no matter what side you are on) is frequently classified as less than human already :)

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Morphy on Aug 1st, 2019 at 4:43pm
"such an AI super being would be indistinguishable from humans online, so you may not even need to make it disappear to keep things quiet. You just need to give it a Facebook account and set it loose in political discussion groups where ďthe other sideď (no matter what side you are on) is frequently classified as less than human already."

Plot Twist: NOOC and JudoP are in fact the very AI they are claiming does not exist.

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by JudoP on Aug 1st, 2019 at 7:24pm

Morphy wrote on Aug 1st, 2019 at 4:43pm:
Plot Twist: NOOC and JudoP are in fact the very AI they are claiming does not exist.


;D ;D ;D

I have verification from other forum members I met this year! Unless they all are also AI...!

The funny thing is I don't want to come down really hard on the side of 'there's absolutely nothing to worry about', because these AI algorithms (and robotics) can be very disruptive technology, which could bring about vast changes in economics, the job market, defence etc.

As for AGI, I agree it seems to me like a huge thing on paper and in the media... but from the ground level - it's just not. I see a lot of theorycrafting and shaky assumptions from the AGI alarmist crowd, which in my view doesn't survive contact with the reality of research, experimentation and the huge unknowns in how human level intelligence works and even the nature of intelligence. The result is something that sounds certainly plausible to a casual reader and is sadly exacerbated by sensationalist reporting, portraying AI as some terrifying boogey-man ready to conquer the world any second. Yet- as much as I rail against all that- there is still cause for concern in the longer term, as I personally can't think of any reason in principle that we can't replicate human level thinking at some point... I just think it's going to be a lot longer and more gradual road get there, if we ever do make it. You never know though† :P

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Aug 3rd, 2019 at 11:17pm

Morphy wrote on Aug 1st, 2019 at 4:43pm:
"such an AI super being would be indistinguishable from humans online, so you may not even need to make it disappear to keep things quiet. You just need to give it a Facebook account and set it loose in political discussion groups where ďthe other sideď (no matter what side you are on) is frequently classified as less than human already."

Plot Twist: NOOC and JudoP are in fact the very AI they are claiming does not exist.


No way! Obviously Morphy is the AI as he doth protesteth too much about AI...

[NOOC references his checklist... Admit nothing: check. Deny everything: check. Make counter-accusations: check... conversation complete. ]

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Morphy on Aug 4th, 2019 at 5:12pm
Too late NOOC I caught you bowling the other day! Behold, your robot overlords:



Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Rat Man on Aug 5th, 2019 at 2:38pm
Just wow!  I wish I could do that!

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Aug 7th, 2019 at 11:44pm
I might be rich by now if I had become a professional, but the local bowling alley doesnít have 3-phase power. Instead, I have to deliver groceries on the weekends  to earn a little spending money.
8F287DCA-9EA7-4CD7-95AB-05AA06DE181A.gif (1173 KB | 2 )

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Aug 7th, 2019 at 11:52pm
By the way... that bowling thing is a computer-generated fake. Thereís no power or data cables connected, and the bowling ball flies straight as if thereís no gravity.

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Rat Man on Aug 8th, 2019 at 12:08pm

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Aug 7th, 2019 at 11:52pm:
By the way... that bowling thing is a computer-generated fake. Thereís no power or data cables connected, and the bowling ball flies straight as if thereís no gravity.


Also a bowling ball moving at that velocity would certainly shatter some pins and damage the machinery behind them. 

Title: Re: neuralink-Didn't know we are so technologically advanced
Post by Morphy on Aug 8th, 2019 at 2:11pm
You guys and your facts. Next you'll be telling me the Terminator movies aren't documentaries. Geez.

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