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Message started by Curious Aardvark on Feb 18th, 2019 at 3:05pm

Title: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Feb 18th, 2019 at 3:05pm
Okay, first off this is small. The glandes are 25mmx11mm
Couple of reasons.
1) only takes half an hour to print both halves :-)
2) no point wasting plastic on something that might not work :-)

So it does work, and assuming you can make the moulds non-stick to clay  - haven't tried that yet - is nearly good to go.

Just need to figure out how to make the hinges parametric.
At the moment, when I put in larger glande specifications, the hinge components come apart. No idea why, I will figure it out !
The mould and cutter are fine. Just the damn hinges :-(

So all that said - the metal rod is part of a bbq skewer. That would need fixing in place as well - not a problem.

Also play-doh isn't ideal as it is very soft. So getting out and removing the thin skirt tends to deform the glande a little.
I think what i'd do with clay is let it dry a little before using the cutter to remove the skirt,
Or just rub ut off when it had dried some.

All that said, it should be a lot quicker than the sliding moulds.

so here's the first pics:
hingemouldtest_800x432.jpg (40 KB | 13 )
hingemouldtest2_800x467.jpg (45 KB | 9 )
hingemouldtest3_607x600.jpg (44 KB | 9 )
hinge1_611x600.jpg (40 KB | 10 )
hinge2_800x458.jpg (37 KB | 10 )
hinge3_800x449.jpg (38 KB | 9 )
hinge4_800x462.jpg (36 KB | 9 )
hinge5_800x460.jpg (44 KB | 15 )
hinge6_800x487.jpg (41 KB | 9 )

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Feb 18th, 2019 at 4:53pm
so now I'm thinking, would the original press moulds work is i added clay release channels ?

Would be so much easier without the hinge :-)
So that's next  :-)

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Kick on Feb 19th, 2019 at 3:21am
That looks really promising. Interesting to see where this leads.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Jaegoor on Feb 19th, 2019 at 5:09am
Alex. Ich hatte die Idee eine silikon Spritze zu verwenden. 😁 Fülle eine Kartusche mit Ton / Lehm und drücke es wie silikon heraus. An der Spitze ist deine pressform befestigt. 😁

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Sarosh on Feb 19th, 2019 at 11:09am
Nice work.
could talc powder be used  instead of the cutter thing?

I like jaegoors idea.
instead of hinges you could add protruding guides and use them as press molds with silicon syringe or a vise.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Feb 19th, 2019 at 11:36am
the big syringe would produce a cylinder - but not an exact size and shape.

The press mould doesn't really work. You definitely need that directional squeeze you get with the hinge.

I'll just have to think about how to get it parametric.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Willem208 on Feb 19th, 2019 at 2:19pm
I am not sure if you have thought about this but it may help. Take a look at the fifty second bullets article on the old website. If you use the technique of jamming the clay into the U shaped piece you can then make a cutter that will give you just the right amount of clay to put in the mould. If you make a press mould it should be able to close completly so the glande can shape properly. And maybe for the sticky issue why not some flour or oil in the mould?  :)

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Feb 20th, 2019 at 6:46am
yeah but you still have to have a measure or scales.
the hinged moulds mean you just need the mould.

Plus the moulds tend to be all different sizes.
So working out the actual volume to produce for a seperate mould to get the right amount of clay for the actual mould is maths way beyond me.

i want to be able to throw a lump into a mould, without measuring, and quickly squeeze a glande.
That way all you need is the mould.
Plus changing the cutters to a small plastic spatula type thing that I can probably house in the mould itself.
easy to whittle a new one when you lose the original.

yeah, a quick wipe with some oil is probably going to be the best bet. Flours is just going to mix with the clay and increase the buildup of clay on the mould surface.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by vetryan15 on Feb 20th, 2019 at 2:15pm
Just remember,  I called dibs on being 1st in line as a tester.  8-)

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by manospuercas on Feb 26th, 2019 at 10:20pm
Great idea, interesting how it ends up.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 20th, 2019 at 12:02pm
Right, finally got a couple hours to redo the hinges.
I think I was just being too complicated.

They now stay put and resize when you resize the mould :-)

Just about to print a 60x30 mould.
See you in a couple of hours :-)

The biggest problem is most likely going to be getting a good quick squeeze on. Currently thinking I'll just maybe step on it.
Should be easily strong enough for that.

Handles for leverage was my first idea, we'll see how this mould turns out and how easy it is with the air dry clay, I doubt anyone will use anything stiffer - so it's a good test.

Oh yeah, these are - probably - only ever going to come in the one style.
I'll stick to the text stamps for words - particularly as I've only just got them to automatically size depending on the length of the word :-)

The little skirt cutting 'sticks' will live in a hole in the mould, to keep everything handy and together for throwing in your pocket.

Right might as well take the dogs out while I'm waiting.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 21st, 2019 at 9:14am
so that works well with play doh - used a quick wipe of 3-in1 oil.
Thinking cooking oil will be fine for clay.
hell water might also work. Once I've got the final design down I'll start experimenting with what works best.
And yes, you can stand on them for extra squeeze :-)

Still got a fair bit to do. handles for leverage are definitely going to be a good idea. Might use metal inserts for extra strength - got some 4.5mm tent pegs that would do the job.
needs text on the mould as well.
Figure the curious aardvark designs on one half and the size on the other.

But on the whole, looking pretty good.
There will definitely be some prototypes going begging for p&p only, so yes Ryan, one will have your name on it :-)

These aren't going to be cheap as there's a fair bit of post processing involved, but should be very long lasting, fast and accurate.
using 0.25mm gap for the hinges and they work really well with no side movement. 
Might beef the hinges up - currently 7mm outer diameter, probably eventually go with 8 or 9.
Can't imagine that it's possibly to bend a 2.8mm steel rod via a - 0.25mm gap, so can't see any reason to change the hinge pins.

So here's where we are at the moment. Got a few hours this afternoon to work on the handles and text.

Oh yeah the play doh was left overnight - hence the cracks, it dries out really fast and shrinks an awful lot. Clay won't do that.
60x30hingemould1_800x435.jpg (60 KB | 12 )
60x30hingemould2_613x600.jpg (60 KB | 8 )

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 21st, 2019 at 11:38am
first views of the handled mould.

I think they look like little tanks :-)

The hole in the 'gun barrel' is for the 4mm steel reinforcing rod.
20x40 test mould currently being made.
Oh yeah the flat bit is for sticking to the print bed - they print that way on up.
Hopefully !
I can always make it larger, if i get issues with the overhangs.

Right, on to the text :-)

handle1.png (18 KB | 10 )
handle2.png (10 KB | 11 )
handle3.png (13 KB | 10 )

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 21st, 2019 at 11:44am
Ah right - just worked out jaegoors syringe idea.
You've still got the get the buggers out of the mould.
I think it probably makes things more complicated rather than less.
there'd be a fair bit of back pressure so you'd need a way to securely attach the mould to the nozzle.
I'll bear it in mind :-)

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Jaegoor on Mar 21st, 2019 at 7:30pm
Alex. Ich hätte tatsächlich eine Idee wie es funktionieren kann. Ich werde dir eine Skizze machen. 😁
Zum befestigen an einer Spritze reicht ein gewinde. Viele Kartuschen haben bereits ein gewinde für die Düse.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Jaegoor on Mar 21st, 2019 at 7:33pm
Verwenden Sie zum lösen kein Öl. Baby Puder hilft sehr gut. Etwas in die Form. Es wird funktionieren. 😁

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 22nd, 2019 at 7:31am
okay, I'll try that :-)

so handles need to be longer and wider, strength is very good.

But did hit a minor snag. If you make a sphere ie: the glande length and diameter are the same, the handle practically vanishes as it's proportionally based on the length.
And i want to make 40mm spheres for competition slinging.

It's the maths, I basically make it up as I go :-)

But we're getting there.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by vetryan15 on Mar 22nd, 2019 at 1:54pm
I am really liking the new updated version. 

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 22nd, 2019 at 4:14pm
this is the mk3 - doubled the length of the handle and made it twice as wide. Added text.
currently making a 60x30
mk 3 looks like this:

the reversed text gets fixed in the slicer, just easier.

A slicer is the program that takes your solid cad designs and works out what each layer looks like for the printer to lay down. ie: it slices the model into very thin slices.
Currently using 0.32mm thick slices. Which is fairly crude, but also quite quick. printing at 100mm/s, which is fairly quick, she'll print quite happily at 150mm/s - but the faster you go the less precision you end up with.
I might try the next test at 150.

The ones for sale will most likely be printed in 0.24 mm slices. which will make the glande sides a bit smoother and also help make the overhangs that bit less prone to warping. But it'll add a fair bit of time to the printing.

Hmm, think handles need to be even longer.
mk4 , on the way
hinged_glande-mk3.png (22 KB | 8 )

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 22nd, 2019 at 4:52pm
right - reckon this should do it.
Also fixed a bit of dodgy maths that added unnecessary height to the top.

Plus now have independant control of handle length so can do spheres much easier :-)

Certain setting still make it weird, but I did fail my A level maths, so what do you expect.

Here's a sample line:

Quote:
translate([(gd+hod)/2+hod/2,(gl/2+st)/2,gd/2]) rotate([90,0,0]) cylinder(d=hod, h=gl/2+st);


The whole script runs to approx 150 lines like that, plus a bunch of variables that seems to grow every time I change something.

All i can say is that it makes sense when I'm typing it. Tomorrow ? Maybe not so much :-)
And i do run almost entirely on trial and error.

hinged_glande-mk4.png (17 KB | 8 )

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 22nd, 2019 at 4:59pm
looking even more like artillery :-)

hinged_glande-mk4-tanks.png (7 KB | 10 )

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by vetryan15 on Mar 22nd, 2019 at 6:40pm
Reminds me of a lead fishing sinker mold I have.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Willem208 on Mar 23rd, 2019 at 8:01am
Some very interesting developments here! These look great and like they would work great ! :)

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 23rd, 2019 at 10:20am
well I'm about to have a go with the latest mk4, clay and some talcum powder :-)
Once I've got a sphere mould generated and started.
And had lunch, lol

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 23rd, 2019 at 1:41pm
Design Evolution

design-evolution_736x600.jpg (100 KB | 8 )
design-evolution2_800x529.jpg (103 KB | 13 )

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Jaegoor on Mar 23rd, 2019 at 4:47pm
Wow. Du Arbeitstier. Respekt

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 24th, 2019 at 2:59pm
right, just added a hole/socket for the little cutter stick and pushed the metal rod a bit further in to the body for extra strength.

And i think we're done :-)

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by vetryan15 on Mar 24th, 2019 at 4:01pm
Sweet

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 24th, 2019 at 4:08pm
okay enlarged hinge, don't think the 7mm will break, but damn sure the 10mm won't.

Just thinking about jaegoor's big old paws :-)
He do have hands like a farmer and a squeeze like a vice !

Right - hopefully that's it. I'll get a 40x40 sphere started and go see about making some clay glandes :-)

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by vetryan15 on Mar 24th, 2019 at 4:39pm
Good luck,  and if needed, I can make another video.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 24th, 2019 at 5:20pm
So, picture the scene:
It's dark out, I'm using the top of a wheelie bin as my work top.
Every now and then I have to wander around waving my arms above my head, like an orangutan to get the sensor to put the light back on.
Can't really see what I'm doing.
But even so the little cutting stick made removing the skirt and channel clay pretty simple.
Oh yeah and if you forget to use the talc, things get messy, see the 50x25 mould lol

when they're dry I'm going to spray paint them silver - the talc will probably wipe off when the clay's a bit harder and dryer.

But, moulds: complete success !

With the talc, you just shake a little into each half, close mould fast and shake.
clay comes out easy.

And the jaegoor text stamp was the only one close to hand :-)
With a rocking motion, it's actually pretty easy to get it on the sphere too.
For cleanup just run the moulds under a tap. don't recommend full immersion, as they're not 100% water tight and will absorb water and then leak it out when removed from sink.
Rinsing should be fine - I'll try that in a bit.

It's kind of messy - do it outside :-)

50x25-clay_629x600.jpg (48 KB | 12 )
45mm-clay_549x600.jpg (47 KB | 9 )
60x30clay_355x600.jpg (40 KB | 8 )
talc_413x600.jpg (43 KB | 9 )
clay-stick_500x600.jpg (39 KB | 7 )

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Jaegoor on Mar 24th, 2019 at 5:41pm
Ich bin begeistert Alex. Ich nehme eine Form. 😁

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 24th, 2019 at 5:53pm
now, how do i work out pricing ?
I am really crap at pricing things.

I'll do a walk through on construction, so you get some idea what's involved. And at some point I'll do a timelapse of the printing part.

Before anyone asks, I'm probably not making a two chamber mould.
Plastic and steel rods are plenty strong enough for one glande at a time, two - probably not. There are stronger (more expensive) plastics I could use - we'll see. 
I was thinking about a universal press with removeable sections for multiple size and shapes. But at the end of the day, this is what we have for the forseable future :-)

Oh yeah, pla - what these are made of is theoretically biodegradable. It's also made from cornstarch NOT petrochemicals.
Between the pla and the cklay - we have a totally enviromentally friendly sling missile system !

It's worth mentioning :-)

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Willem208 on Mar 25th, 2019 at 10:51am
These are looking really good CA!  :D

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 25th, 2019 at 4:03pm
okay, so you know when you think you've finished a job and someone points out something blindingly obvious that you missed ?

Added extra handle reinforcement - pretty sure the metal rod is no longer needed - but I'm a belt and braces kind of guy so I'm going to keep it !

This bad boy is for jaegoor. It's the same size as the perfect rock that he found (marginally bigger, clay shrinks).

I think I'll call this mk-hulk, past the point where numbers mean anything and if you can snap the handles on this, I'll be astonished :-)

jaegoor.png (30 KB | 13 )

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 29th, 2019 at 12:47pm
in case anyone is wondering - I'm currently just working on final printing settings and materials.

Trying out stuff called pet-g: poly(ethylene terephthalate) glycol

It's a right bitch to get to work well, but has much higher layer bnding and impact strength than pla.
The downside is that it takes about twice as long to print and it's stringy as hell.
The price of the material, is similiar to pla. So far haven't managed to get a smooth void.

To put it in perspective, a large mould from pla will probably take around 7 hours.
The same thing with pet-g would be over 14.

I've boosted the density and strength of the pla moulds.
I honestly don't think they'll break.

If I can get pet-g to behave I might offer it as an extra cost option.

Once I've eventually got my cheapo ctc i3 pro-b fully modded and working properly. I can use that without tying up my delta, which currently is used for about 90% of prints as it's just fast and super reliable :-)

Anyway, I'm extremely close to putting these up for sale.
That's the news :-)

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by TheJackinati on Mar 29th, 2019 at 12:59pm
That's awesome.

What do those projectile weight when dry?

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Jaegoor on Mar 29th, 2019 at 2:56pm
Es ist einfach genial. 😁
FANTASTICO

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Mar 29th, 2019 at 5:34pm
@ TheJackinati

Depends entirely on the size of the glande and the type of clay.

I'll go get my scales - brb -
So with air dried modelling clay, that's been on my workshop radiator for a few days.

50x30 = 41gms
60x30 = 49gms
45mm sphere= 84gms

people get too caught up in weight. Even the small one feels like a great size and weight for slinging.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by vetryan15 on Mar 29th, 2019 at 7:46pm
Ohhhh I cant wait. Even if I don't understand all that 3d printer speak. I am also prepared to make another video

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by TheJackinati on Mar 30th, 2019 at 12:46am

Curious Aardvark wrote on Mar 29th, 2019 at 5:34pm:
people get too caught up in weight. Even the small one feels like a great size and weight for slinging.


Well not me. Projectiles within 40 to 80 grams are my favourite to sling (70-80 Grams are probably my optimum weight). I can get those going good distances with a Byzantine throw.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by hubert on Mar 30th, 2019 at 5:45am
genial Alex

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Kick on Mar 30th, 2019 at 11:33am
I think I'll need to get one of these. Still need to have a look around at what types of clay I can easily get hold of but these moulds look fantastic.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by NooneOfConsequence on Mar 30th, 2019 at 12:58pm
Alex: how do you set prices? My recommendation:
A good rule of thumb is 3-4x your costs, not including shipping. If you estimate the price of the filament, the markup covers your time, electricity, wear and tear on your printer, and there is a little margin if the print fails and you lose some filament before a reprint.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Jaegoor on Mar 30th, 2019 at 6:01pm
Perfekt Slingstone 😁
_20190324_235203-1547x1118.JPG (367 KB | 10 )

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by Curious Aardvark on Apr 1st, 2019 at 6:57am
well it probably won't weigh the same, and there's shrinkage to take into account.
But it will be the same shape :-)

Current;y working on making them 'pretty'. Sort of, basically tidying up the overhangs and smoothing the print out a bit.

Title: Re: hinged glande mould test - very early prototype
Post by vetryan15 on Apr 15th, 2019 at 9:44am
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