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General >> General Slinging Discussion >> Sling VS. Staff Sling
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Message started by SplitSling on Jan 19th, 2019 at 3:14pm

Title: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by SplitSling on Jan 19th, 2019 at 3:14pm
Recently I was pondering the advantages of the staff sling over the standard style sling (I don't know what else to call it, but i'm referring to a sling without a pole and which is used in one hand) and realized that the staff sling has a much greater potential in total projectile energy, due to the very heavy projectiles that can be launched from them, and the two handedness allowing more energy to be transferred from the body than is possible with a "standard" sling. Similarly, I thought, a very long staff with long "strings" could launch lighter projectiles at very great speeds (i would imagine. I have yet to make a staff sling, so any input on this point is highly appreciated). This lead me to start to believe that the staff sling could outperform a "standard" sling in both energy and range.

But then I had a very interesting thought that that brings these two types of slings into perspective...

The "standard" one hand sling spins its projectiles with the axis of rotation in the direction it travels (if done right), which is something the staff sling cannot do. The staff sling can only provide backspin to the projectile. This may seem like a small advantage to the "standard" sling, but with heavy, metal, projectiles (like glandes), I believe this is a huge advantage in warfare, particularly at long range. For the staff sling, the only practically shaped projectile is a sphere. No other shape when given backspin will fly well (except perhaps a disc, but the pouch would need some serious modification for that to work). A pointed football shaped projectile launched from a "standard" sling is much better aerodynamically than a sphere, but more importantly, it's pointed. Can you imagine an elongated football shaped projectile made of lead and with sharp steel or iron points? I realize that there is no evidence that lead glandes ever had harder metals in the points, but I think this is simply do to the added difficulty of production, and was simply not worth doing. But imagine if it were done, how deadly effective at long range such a projectile would be.

This post is not attempting to say that one style of sling is better than another, but to share my insights on the strengths of each kind. Staff slings having an energy advantage, and "standard" slings using the right ammo having a deadliness at long rang advantage. I'd love to hear any input from the rest of you.
Sling_Bullet.jpg (271 KB | 36 )

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by SplitSling on Jan 19th, 2019 at 3:27pm
Sorry for the VERY large photo. I did not realize its size when I posted.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Kick on Jan 19th, 2019 at 3:35pm
I think from most peoples experience, certainly my own, staff slings don't throw objects much further than hand slings but they do allow you to throw heavier objects further than you can with a hand sling. Max range for both is about the same but you can hit that max range with a larger projectile using a staff sling.


SplitSling wrote on Jan 19th, 2019 at 3:14pm:
Can you imagine an elongated football shaped projectile made of lead and with sharp steel or iron points? I realize that there is no evidence that lead glandes ever had harder metals in the points, but I think this is simply do to the added difficulty of production, and was simply not worth doing.


I believe a little while ago one of the forum members posted about glandes that had a core of iron with lead surrounding them. I think they were quite rare finds but it seems they did exist. I'll try and find the post as I don't remember it all that well.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Kick on Jan 19th, 2019 at 3:47pm
Found it!

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1503371930/0

It actually has a few different styles of "combination" glandes.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by JudoP on Jan 19th, 2019 at 3:50pm
I had always considered staff slings more as boulder launchers due to 2 hand operation, but potentially with a long (even whippy) stick maybe you could adapt the advantage to small projectiles.

To balance it out though consider that a big stick is gonna be heavier than cord and that requires energy to swing on it's own. Which I think is going to be the limiting factor on these things.

Also, part of the advantage of long hand slings is that you can impart energy to the payload over a long swing(?), rather than using a large force over a short 'swing'. E.g using the byzantine style with a long sling can accelerate the projectile over probably several metres of swing, allowing the projectile to reach a very high speed without exerting extreme force at any one time (think work done=force x distance). This advantage may be more difficult to extend to staff slings where throwing actions are limited.
Altogether it seems you would be able to apply more force but over a shorter arc, this could well help with boulders since it seems the limit on projectile weight in normal slinging is due to excessive strain on the throwing arm/shoulder which hampers the power generation. On lighter projectiles the jury is still out since accelerating the stick to a high enough speed may become quite limiting as well as perhaps not having as long of a distance to accelerate through.

Of course it's pretty damn difficult to make conclusions without testing since all this is in interaction with human mechanics which has it's own limitations characteristics and optimal conditions.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Sarosh on Jan 19th, 2019 at 5:08pm
Before using a staff sling I thought it would be very powerful then I used one and got disappointed.


JudoP wrote on Jan 19th, 2019 at 3:50pm:
Altogether it seems you would be able to apply more force but over a shorter arc

JudoP said it right.

the traditional design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TJp7WgpgB8

The type of staff sling that could possibly surpass a sling
1)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjiAoA26M4Q
controlled release = bigger arc

2)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq8YmtTe-_U
this looks very much like long distance casting (with fishing rod)

3)watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqj-1r2VH5w
claims 260m 859ft he is throwing lead but with a line (+friction ,+air resistance, +mass ) 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-fFVfEjNB8
look how they control the release, without that they would use a very smaller arc and would have a very weaker throw.

So a controlled release with a long rod seems to be the design with the biggest potential

Title: Re: Kick
Post by SplitSling on Jan 19th, 2019 at 5:30pm
Kick,
That's very interesting! I have considered broad-head-like blades, but thought aerodynamically it would cause some issues, mainly because of the spin. I am planning soon to cast some sling bullets of different proportions to test. After seeing the bladed bullets, I will add that to the shapes for testing. Thank you.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Rat Man on Jan 21st, 2019 at 1:33am

Kick wrote on Jan 19th, 2019 at 3:35pm:
I think from most peoples experience, certainly my own, staff slings don't throw objects much further than hand slings but they do allow you to throw heavier objects further than you can with a hand sling. Max range for both is about the same but you can hit that max range with a larger projectile using a staff sling.

[quote author=33100C0914330C090E07600 link=1547928882/0#0 date=1547928882]


    Exactly.  You can launch much heavier projectiles with a staff sling with ease but you won't gain any distance.  Also staff slings are much easier to learn.  I can get a novice effectively using a staff sling in minutes.  Not so with a hand sling.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by SplitSling on Jan 23rd, 2019 at 9:44pm
Has anyone tried to make a staff sling with the ideal proportions for range? I'm thinking a pretty long staff, maybe around 8 feet, with a 4-6 foot sling. The slinger might have to put the pouch on the ground and swing all the way around like a trebuchet.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Rat Man on Jan 24th, 2019 at 2:26pm
   I experimented with different lengths of both staffs and slings.  I found little difference in range no matter the combination.  What did change was the weight of the projectile I was able to launch. If you do find an ideal proportion for range please share it with us.
   Staff slings are easy to make and fun to use.  Everyone should try making one.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Kick on Jan 24th, 2019 at 2:51pm
I still haven't properly tested out mine. It's just been standing in the corner :/ I blame winter but maybe this weekend I'll take it out and throw some tennis balls for my girlfriend's parents dogs (having them for the weekend). Last time I was rubbish with it but I've changed the shape of the end and I think now it should work a bit better.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Jaegoor on Jan 25th, 2019 at 5:35am
Die Fustibal ist eine Interessante Waffe. Ihre Reichweite ist geringer als bei einer Handsling.
Die Handhabung ist einfach. Man lernt es in Minuten. Etwas ist sehr interessant. In Wien sah ich eine private Sammlung. Es gab vier Staffslings dabei. Zwei hatten geschnitzte Kerben. Ich fand heraus, daß diese Markierungen für die Hände waren. Greifen sie denn Stab unterschiedlich, erreichen sie verschiedene Distanzen. Sie können mit etwas Übung sehr genau schießen. Die Staffsling ist daher eine ideale Waffe für die Verteidigung. Zum Beispiel für die Verteidigung einer Burg.
In Reenactor Schlachten sind Staffslinger oder Slinger gefürchtet.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by magic beetle on Mar 26th, 2019 at 11:32am
ammo for a sling staff , you could use a cylinder (covered in spikes or blades)  or self correcting darts and that would work really well for a staff
 

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by slingbadger on Mar 27th, 2019 at 6:50am
slingstaffs were traditionally used for launching incendiaries and liquids. Something that would be harder( and more dangerous for the launcher) with slings.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by funditor on Mar 28th, 2019 at 5:53pm

Jaegoor wrote on Jan 25th, 2019 at 5:35am:
Die Fustibal ist eine Interessante Waffe. Ihre Reichweite ist geringer als bei einer Handsling.
Die Handhabung ist einfach. Man lernt es in Minuten. Etwas ist sehr interessant. In Wien sah ich eine private Sammlung. Es gab vier Staffslings dabei. Zwei hatten geschnitzte Kerben. Ich fand heraus, daß diese Markierungen für die Hände waren. Greifen sie denn Stab unterschiedlich, erreichen sie verschiedene Distanzen. Sie können mit etwas Übung sehr genau schießen. Die Staffsling ist daher eine ideale Waffe für die Verteidigung. Zum Beispiel für die Verteidigung einer Burg.
In Reenactor Schlachten sind Staffslinger oder Slinger gefürchtet.


Silvio das klingt ja spannend, diese Fustibale würde ich auch gerne sehen... Wen kann ich dazu fragen? Schliesslich bin ich beinahe täglich in Wien 😀

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Jaegoor on Mar 28th, 2019 at 7:28pm
Ich sah sie im Zeughaus in Wien. Quasi direkt schräg von Sissy. 😁
Ich kann dir aber nicht sagen ob du sie dort noch findest. Die Ausstellungen wechseln häufig. Aber nachfragen kannst du dort bestimmt.
Ich fand es sehr interessant.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Jauke on Jun 14th, 2020 at 4:49am
I think a reason why the throw is not further with a traditional staff sling is because it doesn't rifle the projectile as much like a standard sling, just like the Y sling also doesn't.

I throw further with a shorter standard sling compared to using a bit longer Y-sling because the standard sling wants to spin them point first, while the Y-sling just lobs them cleanly from the pouch without real spin because there is almost no friction on release. First I thought friction was bad but later I saw it was essential for the standard sling.

I think the Y-sling would be ideal for the staff sling and I am gonna have some fun experimenting with this, but also with a regular staff sling. I haven't used staff slings much.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Kick on Jun 14th, 2020 at 8:36am
I've found with the staff sling, coming forward entirely vertically isn't great for accuracy, but it can give a lot of backspin as the ammo rolls out. I haven't really paid much attention to what this does for distance but worth mentioning. Coming more diagonally is better for accuracy, which is what I've found, for the most part, with hand slings as well.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Way of the Sling on Jun 14th, 2020 at 1:43pm

J wrote on Jun 14th, 2020 at 4:49am:
I think the Y-sling would be ideal for the staff sling and I am gonna have some fun experimenting with this, but also with a regular staff sling. I haven't used staff slings much

That's a fantastic idea, I've got to try that. You should make a video on one.

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Jauke on Jun 15th, 2020 at 2:48pm
Just came back from a small session slinging with the staff sling.
Well it wasn't really a staff just an 80cm stick and a Y-sling of about 50 cm.
Threw bout 25 rocks weighting between 200 grams and a kilo with most being over 500g.
Max range I got was about 60 meters with the short staff sling.

Here's some of my observations:
- the Y sling works like a charm on the staff, it releases the rock perfectly in line with the staff.  although a regular sling will do just as good I think, because heavy rocks will force the regular sling to release just as well.
- The staff sling is very fun, you don't need to care about ammo weight and size up to a kg, any big old rock will work, its weight will defeat the air. You just lob the damn thing
- Less strain on my arm and body throwing 500g with the staff sling compared to the 250 grams with a regular sling, much less.

I think the staff-sling belongs in every slinger's arsenal
It definitely doesn't replace the regular sling but it adds to it
It allows you to throw an even greater range of weights and make use of ammo other wise not usable. 

I believe the regular sling is better regarding precision, penetration, biconical ammo and distance, , but keep the staff sling for anything above 250g. Your body will thank you.

Now time to try bigger staffs and experiment different lengths. It's very fun throwing such huge rocks past 50 meters without the strain on the body. Can definitely see how this is an effective weapon.  If I had an ancient army I would want staff slingers and regular slingers.
The staff slingers could be recruited more quickly and no armor is going to protect you from a 600g rock falling from the sky. Or If I was a shepherd, I would want a dedicated sling for my staff as well.  8-)

I like it mostly because I have access to a large amount of rocks too big for my regular sling, but which are no problem for the staff sling.  :)

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Kick on Jun 15th, 2020 at 4:15pm
Exactly! Staff slings are really fun. Were you just going for distance? Next time take something out with you that you really don't like or that you don't mind taking home again in pieces :D Smashing stuff with a staff sling is very cathartic :D

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Jauke on Jun 16th, 2020 at 8:04am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4eSFjuonlU

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Jauke on Jun 16th, 2020 at 11:37am
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Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by sblakely on Jun 20th, 2020 at 12:59am
I have made and practiced with both and i can tell you I like both for different reasons. I find that the staff sling maybe more dangerous to your target armored or other wise just from the pure concussive force of the larger, generally fist sized projectiles. not to mention with the staff sling you can put a pointy bit at the end and actually have two weapons. However the one drawback i have noticed personally is it can be a little trickier to reload. 

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Rat Man on Jun 20th, 2020 at 3:20pm

sblakely wrote on Jun 20th, 2020 at 12:59am:
not to mention with the staff sling you can put a pointy bit at the end and actually have two weapons. 


By adding a point to the staff you actually have three weapons in one.  The staff without any refinement is a great close quarter weapon.  Most of my staff slings have been made from bamboo, which is great for whacking enemies with. 

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by sblakely on Jun 20th, 2020 at 11:46pm
You Know what you're right that aspect i had spaced! :D

Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Jauke on Jun 21st, 2020 at 12:46pm
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Title: Re: Sling VS. Staff Sling
Post by Jauke on Jun 21st, 2020 at 12:49pm
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