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General >> General Slinging Discussion >> Kestros & Plumbata Darts
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Message started by Sarosh on Dec 9th, 2018 at 3:21pm

Title: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Sarosh on Dec 9th, 2018 at 3:21pm
https://youtu.be/uZ6XMAycPiE
I have them around for around a year, today I fixed them and destroyed them again.
They'll need to survive more than 2 throws with the sling before I make a better video at a longer range :P

Enjoy. 8-)

Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Kick on Dec 10th, 2018 at 3:22am
Nice! I'm going to be getting some large nails soon to actually add points to mine but the weather is still crap so who knows when I'll get to test again. I need some better flights like yours I think. I just could not get the duct tape to behave and fix on straight. It'll be cool to see more of your tests :D

Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Kick on Dec 10th, 2018 at 1:24pm
Oh yeah I wanted to ask, what attachment method do you use. I can see it's not the same one as mine with the peg but is it similar to this type:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Eqse0fYZLLM/VQhWGBdr87I/AAAAAAAAAvc/f1mDHUa3K_I/s1600/sling.jpg

Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Curious Aardvark on Dec 10th, 2018 at 3:28pm
yep how are you fixing the darts in the sling ?

Would be an easy thing to 3d print a lightweight shell with fins and just glue a large nail at the front.

I'm currently up to 5 3d printers - well everyone needs a hobby :-) Collecting 3d printers seems to be my latest :whistle:

Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Kick on Dec 10th, 2018 at 3:33pm
Would that be strong enough though?

Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Curious Aardvark on Dec 11th, 2018 at 7:07am
yep :-)

particularly if I made the body from flexible pla - it's damn near indestructible.

Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Kick on Dec 11th, 2018 at 7:41am
Interesting. I haven't kept up with the advancements and I know it's moving fast. I keep thinking of the really grainy, layered plastic that smashes into a million peices as soon as it's dropped :D Flexible plastic fins would be perfect for my darts.

Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Frondeur on Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:32am
Nice vid, once again, Sarosh!

for the fins, I use light cardboard, covered with duct tape. This "composite fins" can withstand a lot of shooting accident before having to be replaced. Also, you can add a small band of tape on each fin, in diagonal, in order to curve them a bit, thus giving your kestro a nice, stabilizing spin.

Also, more than 300g feels quite heavy to me.
Had one that weigted about 280g, with no lead but a strong, heavy sharp steel point that made almost all of the weight. Despite its terrific impact, I switched to a lighter model, now reduced to 150g. Too light for the plumbata use, but nice for slinging.

I retested it this morning, trying a longer sling, but I couldn't operate the sling correctly, and I'm still stuck with ranges between 50 and 60m. I'm gonna try to build a lighter dart as soon as I can.  ( If I remember well, the historical weight of macedonian kestros was aroun 120g, according to Hondero)

I will try to have a picture taken soon.
Sling well!

Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Sarosh on Dec 11th, 2018 at 2:44pm
@ Kick
I will answer to your question on a later video.

@ Curious Aardvark
I'm going for ancient plumbata design and modify with availability of materials. Now that i want them to withstand multiple throws maybe I'll start to put on them more modern materials.


Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Frondeur on Jan 8th, 2019 at 4:42am

Frondeur wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:32am:
I will try to have a picture taken soon.
Sling well!



mmmh, rrmmh... One month later...
OK, I admit it, I will have to buy myself a camera of my own... So two pics of my beloved kestro. You can see the curving of the fins. The point is a grinded rebar.

20190101_133124bis.jpg (193 KB | 8 )
20190101_133320bis.jpg (303 KB | 8 )

Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Plumbata on Jan 10th, 2019 at 5:07pm
Very interesting, I like seeing different people's approaches regarding replicating Plumbatae.

Regarding ancient examples of the lead weighted tips, I have seen some approaching 200 grams, but most weighed rather less. Obviously the socketed lead weight was designed as a weak-point so they would be less likely to survive or remain straight and be thrown back at the Romans, but for modern use I like cheap socketed fishing spearheads like these to modify with lead weights:



Having a sturdy iron/steel socket is very helpful.

Attached is a pic of most of my collection of original ancient Roman Plumbata tips (center one at 11.5in is a javelin, not a plumbata)

I have been consistently frustrated in my attempts to determine what exactly the kestros/cestrosphendone tips look like and would appreciate any guidance on the subject, but my generally uneducated hunch is that they were bronze pieces like these 3 in the attached picture.

plumbatae.JPG (324 KB | 12 )
DSCN4222__2_.JPG (138 KB | 7 )

Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Sarosh on Jan 10th, 2019 at 5:33pm

Plumbata wrote on Jan 10th, 2019 at 5:07pm:
I have been consistently frustrated in my attempts to determine what exactly the kestros/cestrosphendone tips look like and would appreciate any guidance on the subject, but my generally uneducated hunch is that they were bronze pieces like these 3 in the attached picture.


Why not the same as plumbatae tips? what am I missing?

the photo in the text doesn't show.

Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Plumbata on Jan 10th, 2019 at 6:33pm
Mr Sarosh, I am not aware of any direct link between the Kestros tips and the later Plumbatae, and I have not seen archaeological reports suggesting the same style of tip shared between the 2 weapons, so please show me the evidence demonstrating that the tips were similar. I am very curious and seek a better understanding of the technology.

The attached file shows the modern cheap points I have used:


41761uangSL.jpg (25 KB | 9 )

Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by Sarosh on Jan 11th, 2019 at 12:12pm
I thought there were evidence of different tips for kestros that I had no clue about.
reading these
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kestros_(weapon)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumbata
I've concluded that plumbata(scaled down pilum with fins) and kestros are very similar if not the same.
What differences do you suggest?

Title: Re: Kestros & Plumbata Darts
Post by winkleried on Jan 16th, 2019 at 5:28pm

Sarosh wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 3:21pm:
https://youtu.be/uZ6XMAycPiE
I have them around for around a year, today I fixed them and destroyed them again.
They'll need to survive more than 2 throws with the sling before I make a better video at a longer range :P

Enjoy. 8-)


Nice to see some one actually working with these.

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