My christmas sith parcel from Tomas, arrived this week.

A little late, but damn, was it worth the wait.

Prepare yourselves to feel serious envy :-)

First pic: complete parcel contents:
One paracord sling with decorated and cut pouch.
Cords were left for me to tie - left it as long as i could. Going to throw a decent rock a helluva long weigh.
Beautiful decoration. Feels great in the hand and once the pouch has been used a little it'll throw a wide variety of missiles.

Second sling: A balearic style split pouch, made from a single piece of leather.
Very supple and makes a lovely sound when used. Quite different to both a sling with cracker and the paracord 'whistle'
Throws well, feels good - I am prepared to fight the split pouch :-)

heavy duty, long dog lead. You could probably anchor an elephant with this :-)
There's also a heavy paracord knot (see leather balearic sling pic) - that will make great indestructible practice ammo for balearic target slinging.

And now we get to - what to me - is the highlight of the entire package.

One of the most skilled and beautiful pieces of leather work I've ever seen !
A katal Hyuk coffee coaster.
The pictures don't do the sheen and colour justice.
Good as the rest of the stuff is - this alone would have been more than enough for me.
Truly a work of art - and as you can see also functional :-)

I'm in 2 minds whether to hang it on the wall or use it.

Was it worth the 9 month wait and £29 customs fee - oh hell yeah !!!!
:-) 

Many, many thanks Tomas !

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Real nice. I have some of Tomas' handiwork myself so I know just how good his stuff is in person. Pictures never do it justice :D

Wow. Incredible craftmanship. I bet that pouch is very aerodynamic.

Yeah should be. Has a good clean release. Not quite a full lenth distance sling - but long enough to get a fair bit of distance with a good sized rock :thumb:

Throws  a sock ball well :-)

Tomas does great work. That sling pouch is really striking. Havent seen one like that. I recieved one of his slings in a trade once and I felt bad for the one I sent him after seeing his lol.

Genial. Mir gefällt das logo aus Leder.  Bitte eins nach Germany  ::)

Get your own !
This one is mine :-)

Beautiful work. U got lucky

Ohh... Tomas, do you take bribes? ;) The coaster is amazing! (The rest also ;) )

The interesting thing about the katal hyuk slinger is that it's the exact same stance that Jorn - one of the german slingers - uses.
Exactly the same shape !
So unlike most historical slinger depictions - this one is based on an actual slinger actually slinging :-)

You know, Jorn doesn't look 9'000 years old :noidea:

Du meinst Jörn.

Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 13^th, 2017 at 3:29pm:

So unlike most historical slinger depictions - this one is based on an actual slinger actually slinging

You misspelled "like"

I love the look of the 2 slings

Thearos wrote on Sep 13^th, 2017 at 5:20pm:

Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 3:29pm: So unlike most historical slinger depictions - this one is based on an actual slinger actually slinging You misspelled "like"

? :noidea:

But, I did mean Jorn :-)
Why doi I keep calling him jurgen ? :noidea:

Given that I can even hear the announcer calling 'Jorn michealson' as the next slinger (that's probably spelt wrong) in my head.

tolle arbeit ;)

"So like most historical slinger depictions - this one is based on an actual slinger actually slinging"

There, corrected it for you.

No I am correct.
Most artistic depictions of slingers are based on a model in a studio who is most likely not a slinger, striking am heroic pose.

Almost none show a slinger in motion - as it were.

So consider yourself uncorrected.

Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 15^th, 2017 at 7:29am:

No I am correct. Most artistic depictions of slingers are based on a model in a studio who is most likely not a slinger, striking am heroic pose. Almost none show a slinger in motion - as it were. So consider yourself uncorrected.

Negative sir. All ancient manuscripts and art are based on 100% factual eye witness accounts.

https://i.imgur.com/JCYsSAp.jpg

In fact, I don't there is much evidence for models "posing heroically" in studios in the ancient world. But speaking of Greek art, which I know a bit about, I can refer you to the slingers on a Mycenaean rhyton (1200 BCE ?), a geometric crater (730 BCE ?), a black-figure vase (550 BCE ?) the coins of Aspendos (e.g. 300 BCE onwards) with the starting position of slinging hand well back, and pouch held forward with left hand before eyes. It is a perfectly viable starting position, and one which might well have been taken from real life rather than be an artistic convention. Here's the Paros vase.

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A cup by the painter Makron shows a variant (found in other vases too), where the body is twisted away from the direction of shot, while the cords are being tensed. The body is carefully represented (and needs close reading: he is shooting towards the right, from where there are enemies shooting arrows at him) and the gesture of cord-tensing with long slings is exactly paralleled from the Baleares. The hand position with the thumb pointing forward and the palm upwards (supination in fencing terminology) is also accurately represented.

I have tried slinging this way, positioning my feet in this position (right foot pointing away from target, body turning, one rotation and then release) and it generates a long unwinding sling trajectory and if done right, a powerful, accurate, flat shot (it also hurts my elbow a bit and I generally prefer to lob).

[modified to add reference to hand position in supination]

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A few years ago (in summer 2014, I think, but there was earlier debate about this) there was some discussion on this. Here are some images of the "pouch before face" style. They know what they're showing.

On the other hand, the slinging position on Trajan's column is classicizing, and on the Assyrian reliefs showing the siege of Lachisch the slingers are stylized.

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Yep and I was right in 2014 as well :-)

Well, you thought the chap on the Makron cup was shooting in the wrong direction, which, as Mr Morningstar pointed out, completely skewed your ability to understand the body dynamics. This reminds me of the great scholar U. von Wilamowitz, who made a terrible mistake once when using the text of Pausanias (misread south for north) when giving a public guided tour, and from then on always blamed Pausanias for getting things wrong.

I am mostly posting this, patiently, for new members, who might find interest in this selection of images. Here are two more pictures with the "pouch before face" position. One dates to 1200 BCE, one to say 460 BCE.

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CA I am glad you like your gifts! If this changes your mind about split pouch slings then I'm glad I put it in your hand. Maybe you'll even improve  ;)
I encourage you all to check out my work on Facebook: Cobblestone Leathers or on instagram: cobblestone_leathers. As you might have guessed from the slings, I am into leather.
I do take bribes or even money so if you like nice things hit me up.

I might make a tutorial for you guys on how to make your own slinging drink coaster.... hopefully it won't take 9 months!

lol, Artists have artistic licence - so most pictures are not drafted in the middle of a battle. They are done in studios with standard poses.
It's that simple. Maybe you've forgotten they didn't have photographs back then :whistle:

Also there are very few 9000 old slingers around, jorn is pretty much unique ;-)

Yes i am taking the piss - because you take this kind of thing way too seriously Thearos, and you do seem to have an over romanticised view for an historian :-)

Note that these are not representations of the release, which Greek artists either found difficult to seize or did not like to show, preferring starting positions. I don't think these are "studio" positions (that's a presupposition without evidence) as much as images reconstructed in the mind's eye-- both the artist's and the viewer's-- and as such, they have to be convincing. This is naturalist art, and as such, it tries to get things, bodies, and postures right-- and gets increasingly good at it. At least when we can compare things represented with actual things (for instance tools or helmets), the level of accuracy is very good. Not photography, and not trying to be-- but trying to show reality (for various ideological purposes, of course). Medieval art is also very good at showing weaponry and realia.

Things like slinging technique or archery (or horsemanship) are hard to show right, but I think those Greek artists had a good crack at it. The "Greek" style, to be authentic, should therefore be a pose with the pouch before the eyes (and hence a helicopter from static start).

A parallel debate is about spear holding position: did Greek hoplites really fight with the spear held "overhand", above their shoulders ? Greek art says yes, reenactors etc say it's too hard. Lately some guy (Thrand, on YouTube) thinks he knows why: overhand allows you a sort of controlled throw whereby the shaft slides out very fast. Myself, I think if the image is shown, it has good chances of showing a real posture.

(Chigi Olpe, perhaps 650 BCE)

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