www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpEkzWXe7FQ&feature=youtu.be

Guess I'll go with the name "semisling" for now.

This video isn't going to knock your socks off or anything but it gives you the idea. This post was as a result of The Oncoming Storm asking for a staff sling that could be released at any angle. I just happened to have been playing around with something like that a year ago so I thought I could help him out.  Hopefully this is what you had in mind Storm.

This weapon can, and I guess will, be considerably stronger if the stick is made of denser, thinner wood. The stick I used was probably twice as thick as it should have been. My original proof of concept was much more impressive, at least to me.  Also I would guess something around 20-22 " would be ideal for 4 ounce ammo. 

The benefits are hypothetically much easier to learn (time will tell) and of course, no wind up for hunters. Just whip back and throw.

Gold star award wining post
http://slinging.org/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/goldstar.JPG

That is bloody ingenious !
Have a gold star - and they're rare :-)

And yeah you probably want a flexible sapling.

Great idea. Easier to use and make than a staff sling but with the same ease of use and - hopefully - straight, easy to aim throw.

So forked stick, ducttape, half a sling.
I will make one :-)

Should probably be in the sling section - dunno is different enough to not be a sling.
Tricky one that  ;D

Curious Aardvark wrote on Jul 14^th, 2014 at 7:20am:

That is bloody ingenious !

Agreed.  The more I think about this, the more I like it.

Is that you in the video?

Curious Aardvark wrote on Jul 14^th, 2014 at 7:20am:

Should probably be in the sling section - dunno is different enough to not be a sling

The way it works is definitely more like a staff sling.  Actually, now that I've thought about it a bit more.  The way it works is probably closer to an Atlatl.

Great Idea using a hand release cord on a staff sling, this is just what I wanted.

It does work a bit like a Atlatl and a bit like a staff sling, but neither suits it. How about calling it the "hand trebuchet" Morphy?

The way I am with naming stuff...you know, you guys figure out what sounds good to you. I name a lot of stuff just to keep it organized in my mind but unless it's really special to me I just throw it out there and let others figure it out. For now I went with the semisling because it's partly a sling. Yep, I know, very original.

I woke up this morning thinking a good thin piece of bamboo with a fork made of very dense wood  stuck into the top would probably be a good way to go. As you mentioned C_A it needs a much thinner piece of wood. The actual weapon once tweaked can be more powerful.


Curious Aardvark wrote on Jul 14^th, 2014 at 7:20am:

So forked stick, ducttape, half a sling.

I'm guessing you can use just the fork section for the stick side but having the other half of the sling pouch attached to the fork will probably give you better grip and make it easier to use? I don't know for sure, but I would guess that is the case though.

Oxnate, yes that is me in the video.

Storm, if you wanted to start a poll and throw that suggestion out there for people to vote on, that would be cool. It's up to you though.  :)

I also think it is closer to an atlatl than to a staff sling. 

Or, it may be that the really old staff slings were made this way and you just rediscovered one of the secrets that was lost to time.  I actually think that is cool.

Have you ever tried a lacrosse stick?

For some reason at work, I thought of comparing your invention to this:

http://www.amazon.com/US-Games-Fun-Air-Scoop-Ball/dp/B0002C7FRC

As for names for you stick-sling.

Atlsling?
Slingatl?
The Amazing Stick-sling?

I rather like the sound of semi sling. So sibilant sounding it's silky smooth. :)

Quote:

Oxnate, yes that is me in the video.

you know I always pictured you with hair :-)

"You know I always pictured you with hair"

Those were the days C_A.  ;)

Oxnate, Doggodaggle - Believe it or not I considered probably something close to both of those designs early on but they are both flawed. Neither can throw with a rifled shot (as far as I know anyways) and both are more complicated than I would want to make under survival conditions. Which is an important aspect for me. And lastly both work best with spherical ammo which negates one of the biggest advantages of the normal sling. I didn't want to sacrifice that.

Here's my thinking, you could make a version of this with a shallow channel partway down the center of the stick for the cord to rest in and very short prongs on the end so that the pouch has better flexibility and grip. The channel should be as long as the release cord but the stick should be longer. That way it's a two handed weapon that can still throw stones as heavy as a conventional staff sling. You could even make a bowl at the end of the channel and put a bead on the release cord so that the release cord is locked in place until you throw, but the bowl would be cut so as to release the bead very early. That way your hand serves as a timer for the release but doesn't have do much work to hold the projectile in the pouch before the throw.

Masiakasaurus wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 1:04pm:

Here's my thinking, you could make a version of this with a shallow channel partway down the center of the stick for the cord to rest in and very short prongs on the end so that the pouch has better flexibility and grip. The channel should be as long as the release cord but the stick should be longer. That way it's a two handed weapon that can still throw stones as heavy as a conventional staff sling. You could even make a bowl at the end of the channel and put a bead on the release cord so that the release cord is locked in place until you throw, but the bowl would be cut so as to release the bead very early. That way your hand serves as a timer for the release but doesn't have do much work to hold the projectile in the pouch before the throw.

An earlier prototype used something similar but with no fork at all. What I found is that if the pouch is not supported it has a tendency to twist. A smaller fork might work though. Or thicker leather. Or both.

As for the release cord lock that would probably work well but different size ammo would cause the release cord to be different lengths making it only suitable for ammo that is all exactly the same size and type.  If I'm understanding where you are coming from.

I like your thinking Masi. Basically your post illustrates what I often do in my spare time. I just create/modify stuff endlessly in my head.  :)  Of course, your an engineer so you get paid big money when you do it! lol.

Morphy wrote on Jul 13^th, 2014 at 10:58pm:

[url=www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpEkzWXe7FQ&feature=youtu.be[/url]]www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpEkzWXe7FQ&feature=youtu.be[/url] Guess I'll go with the name "semisling" for now. This video isn't going to knock your socks off or anything but it gives you the idea. This post was as a result of The Oncoming Storm asking for a staff sling that could be released at any angle. I just happened to have been playing around with something like that a year ago so I thought I could help him out.  Hopefully this is what you had in mind Storm. This weapon can, and I guess will, be considerably stronger if the stick is made of denser, thinner wood. The stick I used was probably twice as thick as it should have been. My original proof of concept was much more impressive, at least to me.  Also I would guess something around 20-22 " would be ideal for 4 ounce ammo.  The benefits are hypothetically much easier to learn (time will tell) and of course, no wind up for hunters. Just whip back and throw. Gold star award wining post http://slinging.org/forum/yabbfiles/Attachments/goldstar.JPG

I have built a small variable-release staff sling of the type Storm mentioned.  Had a release cord come through a loop at the top of the staff and I held it with my thumb against the staff.

Morphy wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:39pm:

An earlier prototype used something similar but with no fork at all. What I found is that if the pouch is not supported it has a tendency to twist. A smaller fork might work though. Or thicker leather. Or both.

I wondered how important the fork was. My thinking is that the pouch should be stabilized by having it attached to the stick at two points side by side. The fork should be wide enough to work but as short as possible to get the best performance.

Morphy wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:39pm:

As for the release cord lock that would probably work well but different size ammo would cause the release cord to be different lengths making it only suitable for ammo that is all exactly the same size and type.  If I'm understanding where you are coming from.

I'm not terribly worried about that. It will definitely happen, but I can't imagine it hurting anything until you start trying to load things much larger than the size of the pouch.

Morphy wrote on Jul 16^th, 2014 at 8:39pm:

I like your thinking Masi. Basically your post illustrates what I often do in my spare time. I just create/modify stuff endlessly in my head.  :)  Of course, your an engineer so you get paid big money when you do it! lol.

This isn't engineering. This is fun. :P

Now, what is this "money" you speak of? I've heard rumors of a substance that is bartered for food but I have not seen anything like it yet. For now I am forced to subsist on charity, day old Jimmy John's bread, and bulk packs of instant ramen noodles.

   Great idea, Morhpy.  The staff is the retention cord.  I was thinking of a much more complicated trigger mechanism to do the exact same thing.  Simpler is better.  WTG!

Thank you RatMan. Simpler is usually better, I find.

Masi, Ramen noodles you say? The stuff of my nightmares. Ugh. Good, at times, but in a horrible way.

Morphy, do you have any pictures of the semisling? With the video now gone, I'm finding it a little difficult to understand how it works (I'm definitely more of a visual person) and it sounds really interesting.

https://i.imgur.com/fuaEfBO.jpg

Here’s a little sketch Kick. Just in case anyone was unsure whether the rock was flying back into the pouch or away from it I put some helpful arrows there.

The retention “cord” is replaced with a rigid/semi-rigid Y-forked stick. The retention side of the pouch is attached to the Y to keep it’s shape. Otherwise the pouch tends to twist. The release side of the pouch is free to open and close. The cord is held in between the thumb and one of the fingers (even though I have the thumb along the stick, during the initial part of the throw it’s gripping the release cord). The grip is aided by a tight fitting loop attached to the stick so the weapon doesn’t fly out of your hand when you open your thumb to release the cord.

So this design “works” fairly well and seems much easier to aim than a normal sling. It also has a benefit of instant throws. Just swing it back and launch it forward, there is no wind-up needed which is actually more helpful than it sounds, especially on moving game. As a hunting weapon I think this has potential.

This weapon has advantages and disadvantages but it’s something I’m going to come back to as soon as time permits. A flexible tillered shaft instead of completely rigid is the next step in my plans.

That looks awesome! Thanks! I'll have to add it to the To Make List :D

Morphy, you just invents the ancestor of the sling : an atlatl to hurl a stone !
Congratulations !

I made  something like this when I was eight.
I carved a notch on the top of a wand like stick and used a ribbon shoe lace for the release. It worked pretty well and I was able to get quite accurate. though I don't think it has the range that a normal sling has.

TOMBELAINE wrote on Mar 17^th, 2020 at 10:41am:

Morphy, you just invents the ancestor of the sling : an atlatl to hurl a stone ! Congratulations !

Haha... well that’s one way of looking at it! I imagine when I make the 2.0 version that flexes correctly with the rock it really will be exactly that. Except the atlatl itself will flex instead of the dart.

I am serious.
This hypothesis is a good approach to the sling from an atlatl.
But we will never know.

Someone may have thought this one out before.
https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1074746530/3#3

Also, I would appreciate another video.

Wow! Good find Slyngorm!

Yes this weapon is far too simple to have not be created around the world many hundreds if not thousands of times individually throughout history. It never took off so we can assume it does not have enough advantages to have become a well known weapon, at least not in its simplest form.

I still contend its a viable weapon if designed right. I have plans for a ratcheting system for prestressed silk backing on bows. It could also be used to apply a full.length all surface backing to a thin, tillered and very light bamboo or other flexible cylindrical semi sling. If designed right and used with ammo "spined" to fit the flex it should add a considerable amount of speed while also conversely making it lighter while still retaining all the advantages of the normal.semi sling.

This could also be used to throw heavy all.steel darts making it quite a powerful hunting weapon.

You know...people have known how to tiller for thousands of years and they have known about sinew backing for thousands of years as well. There may very well actually have already been backed and tillered semislings. What a fascinating thought that would be.

Morphy wrote on Apr 26^th, 2021 at 9:06am:

tillered semislings

That is a very interesting notion.  I would guess that in order to have an efficient contribution from the tiller, the weight of the semisling's bend and the weight of the stones would need to be matched up so they're in sync with each other.  It would be interesting to see how much variation in stone weight would work well.

joe_meadmaker wrote on Apr 26^th, 2021 at 9:23am:

Morphy wrote on Apr 26th, 2021 at 9:06am: tillered semislings That is a very interesting notion.  I would guess that in order to have an efficient contribution from the tiller, the weight of the semisling's bend and the weight of the stones would need to be matched up so they're in sync with each other.  It would be interesting to see how much variation in stone weight would work well.

Yes. All true. No big deal though since atlatls have to tiller all their darts. With a semisling you would only have to tiller the weapon itself once then simply keep a stone of correct weight in your pouch as your reference weight.

I do wonder in what context the semisling is mentioned in the book. Was it a native invention or something the author made himself?


Morphy wrote on Apr 26^th, 2021 at 9:04am:

Wow! Good find Slyngorm!

Welp, that is what happens if your scourge the archives for information. This is the oldest thread with a title containing the phrase "staff sling".


Morphy wrote on Apr 26^th, 2021 at 9:04am:

Yes this weapon is far too simple to have not be created around the world many hundreds if not thousands of times individually throughout history. It never took off so we can assume it does not have enough advantages to have become a well known weapon, at least not in its simplest form.

That is a discussion in an of itself that could be applied to every topic in the world.
So, maybe?

If I am to apply my Ranged weapon's chart grades to this one:
Simplicity: 8
just below a sling

Durability: 8
same as a sling

Surroundings: 6
bit better because a stick is easier to control and you can use it like a staff sling

Weather: 10
same

Distance: 3?
same as a sling?

Rate of fire:7
same as a sling

Possible targets: 3
same as a sling

practice: 5
far better than a sling

Suppleness: 4
depends on the size

Stealth factor: 8
same as a sling

Ammunition specialization: 8
same as a sling

Ammunition manufacturing: 9
same as a sling


Out of all the grades there isn't much of a difference. It is slightly (SLIGHTLY) more difficult to make. It is as supple as an atlatl (depending on size) which is its main downside compared to a sling. It can throw just as long (right?) and most importantly it is far easier to use.

The last point is the most interesting since it would offer a very clear advantage to a sling with few disadvantages. The real question is if it really is easier to use (same with every other grade, haven't used one ya know). And if so comes the question of why was it never used to any large extend.

So i like every score you gave it but just from my experience the distance was no where near a slings. Of course my first one wasnt optimized but even so I think the trade off, at least in my mind, is less power but easier to be accurate.

If you search for "skepifletta" you will find many on the forums mentioning a viking weapon that consisted of a stick in which you placed a stone and then threw with.

All people on the internet (also on other forums) can say about it is that one or two sources mentions it.
Now "skepi" sounds like the norse word "skjeppe" which is a measurement, so maybe a container of sort.
And "fletta" sounds like braiding.

So if you imagine morphy's semisling just with a braided pouch this is pretty close.