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General >> Project Goliath - The History of The Sling >> Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
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Message started by Mauro Fiorentini on Feb 27th, 2013 at 8:52am

Title: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Feb 27th, 2013 at 8:52am
Hallo friends!
We already had some discussions about these (http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?action=search2 among others), but I haven't been able to find pictures of these finds.
So here they are:





Leather pouches, dating 9th-11th Century a.D.
You can read about them on Leather and leatherworking in Anglo-Scandinavian and Medieval York, The archaeology of York, Volume 17, General editor R. A. Hall, Council for British Archaeology, 2003.
It's a pdf that can be easily found on the net.
Greetings,
Mauro.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by David Morningstar on Feb 27th, 2013 at 11:05am

That is a great picture. The biggest of them is still small, and the smallest is tiny. They certainly look like sling pouches, but I'm not 100% convinced.


Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Bill Skinner on Feb 27th, 2013 at 11:57am
This is not a challange, if they are not sling pouches, then what are they?  Several of them look like the lining of a Baleric style sling, a couple look like pouches for slings and the rest look like they are or could be pouches for slings.  And I recall the thread about a hairpiece or ponytail holder, I didn't think it was correct, either.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by wanderer on Feb 27th, 2013 at 12:24pm
Reading the text that goes with these pictures, it seems that the possibility of them being sling pouches was seriously considered. They were aware of the Hedeby identifications and others.

However some of them at least were considered too small and made from material unsuitable for such a use. This was the opinion of Thom Richardson (as in writer of well-known article on slings) when shown some of the pieces.

Rather hilariously they mention in passing a similar item found in Southampton which was described as a shoe tongue, but which long-term members will remember Slingbadger pestered them to change  to a sling pouch.  :)

The authors suggest that they might be associated with guides to straps or belts. They have certainly considered the possibility of them being sling pouches, but they seem not to feel definitive about their identification.


Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by slingbadger on Feb 28th, 2013 at 6:44am
The big hole in the large one could have been a result of  the leather rotting. All it takes is a small hole or weak spot and the rot can set in.  It also depends on the soil conditions, which is not mentioned in the article. Some of the artifacts were actually stitched together from thin pieces, also.
 I say we slingers make pouches based on the sizes and dimensions of these and give them a try. Were the ones with the experience, not the academics.  

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by lakeslinger on Mar 1st, 2013 at 7:18am

slingbadger wrote on Feb 28th, 2013 at 6:44am:
... I say we slingers make pouches based on the sizes and dimensions of these and give them a try. Were the ones with the experience, not the academics.  


Very good idea. I already made a real-size template of the smallest one (15767) and will give a try if or how it works.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Thearos on Mar 1st, 2013 at 10:11am
The stitchmarks on the sides of the leather pieces do rather fit the sling pouch hypothesis.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Mar 1st, 2013 at 11:49am
Topic added to the PG's Index.
I agree with both slingbadger and Thearos even if I think these pouches are small too.
By the way I managed to handle some ancient knives in the past and I've found them to be small too, for my hands.
Don't know if it means something, though...
Greetings,
Mauro.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by squirrelslinger on Mar 1st, 2013 at 11:19pm

Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Mar 1st, 2013 at 11:49am:
Topic added to the PG's Index.
I agree with both slingbadger and Thearos even if I think these pouches are small too.
By the way I managed to handle some ancient knives in the past and I've found them to be small too, for my hands.
Don't know if it means something, though...
Greetings,
Mauro.

Mauro, you bring up an excellent point. I have taken multiple history courses, and while i am not sure about this, I think that nutrition improved dramiticly after the black death, and this allowed people(children) to grow larger. We all know that two identical twins, one malnourished, one fed but not "fat" the fed one will be taller and stronger if they lived the same. We do know that stone age people were shorter than modern people. It seems that once humans had a stable food source, it helped them grow larger. Also, this could be becuase we are all part neadethal, but back then people were not "alloyed" with them (for lack of a better term). Also, after the argicultural revolution, people were larger and better fed. There is archeological evidence for this, I just cant remember all of what we talked about in a class I slept in ever other day :D
I think that mostly explains the smaller knives. plus that there was reduced reliance on knives, more on that later.
More evidence- The people with the most varied foods have historicly been the conquerors, not the conquerees.
-Squirrel


Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by wanderer on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 2:49pm
I'm not sure there will ever be enough evidence to decide the matter.

They do seem generally a little small, and I don't think that people being smaller then than now (which I'm not sure was even the case here) explains that. Particularly, you need a pouch big enough to hold a projectile which is big enough to do it's job, and that doesn't depend on the size of the slinger.

I wonder if a discarded sling would find its way into town dumps etc. I would have thought they were more likely to be discarded when they broke in use, which probably would be somewhere else, such as wild-fowling by the river.

As far as ground conditions, I think all these artefacts came from waterlogged anaerobic environments, York is on the River Ouse and is quite low lying, it still regularly floods. Much of the land around there was historically marshy. Couldn't tell you the pH though :).

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 3:25pm
You made me think about the fact that leather tends to shrink when it's dry.
Could it be the case here?
Thearos?
Greetings,
Mauro.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Donnerschlag on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 7:58pm
Keep in mind that most modern slingers seem to make their pouches rather big for their choice in ammo. (And most modern slinger's choice in ammo also seems to be bigger than what some areas seemed to find sufficient. Some even had ammo as light as an ounce or so.)
For a 3-4oz stone, You only really need a pouch about 1.5"/3cm wide, and maybe 4"/10cm long. Anything more than that is really just peace of mind/versatility for extremes. (It's one reason my slings have such long, yet narrow pouches)

It may not be that these are "small" pouches, it's that they likely kept their pouches as small as possible to reduce drag. That's my theory. Although in reality it's likely a combination of several factors, like leather shrinkage. :P

Just my two cents

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Bill Skinner on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 8:21pm
Can someone tell me where to find the actual measurments, please.  

I have a friend who found a leather shoe from the US Civil War.  When he got finished stabalizing it, it might have fit a skinny 6 year old.  Between being in an old filled in outhouse for over 100 years and however he stabilized it, the leather shrunk to smaller than 1/2 is original size.  Could that have happened?

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by squirrelslinger on Mar 2nd, 2013 at 10:17pm
Bill I think you are very correct.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by slingbadger on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 6:34am
I have the book. I'll look it up

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 8:26am
Bill, that's what I meant.
Lying underground in certain humidity conditions may have caused these pouches to shrink.
I see this happens when I treat my sheats with water in order to resize them. Analysis of York's soil humidity percentage would be perfect.
I can't remember if these artefacts were found in the ancient sewer...
Greetings,
Mauro.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by David Morningstar on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 11:11am

If leather shrinkage is likely then I will revert my objection and accept them as sling pouches. I think I might try making a couple.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by jlasud on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 11:57pm
Some of those would be perfect for lead slinging.
I bet they also used special slings for slinging lead.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by slingbadger on Mar 4th, 2013 at 6:43am
OK It gives the measurements for some of them. Starting from the left- The left the first one is 8 cm. the 2nd one is 14 cm. The third  one is 10 cm  The 5th one is 10 cm.  The last one is 10 cm.
 Like to point out that the 3rd one is incomplete, part of it was torn at one point.  They all date from from the mid 10th through the 13th cent.  One of them had been found wit a thong passed through one of the terminal slits and knotted.


 Turns out there are more of these that have been found. Here's a list of other sites where other leather pouches/ elliptical panels have been found.
Chapel Lane Staith, Hull dating to post 1350
Guildhall Yard, London associated with pottery dating  1050-1150
Welsh Back, Bristol  Medieval
Perth, Scotland  Medieval
Waterford, Ireland, 13th cent.  

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Thearos on Mar 4th, 2013 at 8:10am
betw. 8 and 10 cm, 12 cm seem pretty OK for a pouch (especially if you're fowling). If you add even 25% for shrinkage, which seems a very conservative figure, you get perfectly normal pouches. More allowance for shrinkage, and you're talking serious poucheage.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Thearos on Mar 4th, 2013 at 8:11am
+ the knotted thong is pretty suggestive.

All kudos to slingbadger for finding and publicizing the details !!

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by slingbadger on Mar 4th, 2013 at 4:24pm
From the archeological site-- The area contains deep waterlogged soil and anoxic conditions, ensuring minimal degradation of organic materials.

BTW they are looking for volunteers for the new dig this summer.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Bill Skinner on Mar 4th, 2013 at 7:55pm
Thank you for the actual measurments.  They seem useable as is, although a little on the small size.  Could they have been used by children or as a pub game, similar to bowling or darts.  

The men are standing around the pub, having a beer or twelve, there is a target hanging on a tree, and somebody says "I bet I hit the target three out of five throws"...

Everyone has their own sling, similar to owning your own set of darts.  

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by lakeslinger on Mar 5th, 2013 at 10:27am
Before you guys brought in the idea of shrinkage, I made a template of the smallest pouch and cut out a similar piece of leather. It´s really small, so I decided to attach short single cords to it and tried 5 throws with stones of max. 4.5 cm length. 4 of 5 stones fell out. I tried 2x greek overhead, 2x sidearm and 1x (modified) apache style. Only 1 sidearm throw worked, and the power was more than bad. But I´m not a very skilled slinger and I think the ammo was too big. Maybe one of you will have more success. Considering the shrinking of leather things would change and I´d sling with a pouch size that`s more similar to the one I`m used to.

Small pouches (better: small ammo) could maybe have been used by peasants to protect the harvest from groups of small birds on the field without damaging the plants as it would have happened with big stones. Or maybe people threw small stones with short-corded slings inside in a stable to birds, mice, rats that were sitting under the roof, too high to reach them. In this case smaller stones would have done their work, again without causing too much collateral damage.
But this are only personal speculations (I´m also academic  :))
minisling.jpg (76 KB | )

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by curious_aardvark on Mar 5th, 2013 at 3:47pm
Those like the one above are almost certainly hair barretts.

Most of the others do look like viable sling pouches. Especially the ones with holes round the edges.

Also the size most likely reflects the value of the leather and the fact that fairly small sling bullets are very common in the historical records. Why waste leather, also small sling pouches have less air resistance.

That said - the smaller the pouch the more important the shaping/cupping is. With minimal leather you need it hold the ammo secure and the best way to do that is to have the pouch cupped.

So my personal preference would be to keep all the ones that are clearly shaped sling pouches as sling pouches and have alternative uses for the ones that are clearly not shaped pouches.  

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Thearos on Mar 5th, 2013 at 6:00pm
Whoa, lakeslinger-- that *is* small

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Mar 5th, 2013 at 6:12pm
Here's the .pdf from the Council for British Archaeology: http://www.yorkarchaeology.co.uk/resources/AY17-16-Leather%20and%20leatherworking.pdf

It's downloadable for free.
"Pouches and pourses" from page 3402 to page 3410.
Greetings,
Mauro.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by David Morningstar on Mar 6th, 2013 at 10:08am
Here is an approximate replica of a York sling:






I was interested by the large holes at the ends of some of the artefacts compared to the smaller holes along the edges, which were themselves large compared to the hole made by sewing a pouch on with thread e.g. onto a braided sling.

I used thick jute twine and sewed it directly through the edges of the pouch. I used sticky tape on the working end to act as a needle, melted wax would have had a similar effect. Both cords pass through the final hole at each end, accounting for the larger size. The cords were reverse twisted together to form the release and retention cords. The finger loop was spliced back into itself. The pouch length is about six inches.

This works well and is a good way of using thinner leather for a pouch, since the tension is taken by the cords and not the leather itself. It is much quicker and simpler than making a braided sling with a sewn leather pouch.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Mar 6th, 2013 at 10:36am
My newest sling has holes on the whole perimeter: http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1361216942/0 (first page, last picture) and I've found it to be the best solution for accuracy and swiftness.
I also think we may write to those York archaeologists, submit them our opinions... any thoughts? C_A?
Greetings,
Mauro.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by curious_aardvark on Mar 6th, 2013 at 11:07am
your pics aren't showing up david. I even tried pasting the url directly into my browser and had no joy.

is it just me ?

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Mar 6th, 2013 at 11:21am
I can see them!
Greetings,
Mauro.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Thearos on Mar 6th, 2013 at 2:33pm
DM-- sorry to be thick, but could you explain what you did ? Is it one single strand, or two strands (one for each side ?) ?

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by David Morningstar on Mar 6th, 2013 at 3:57pm
Two strands, one for each side which meet up at the final hole at each end and become a 2-ply reverse-twisted cord.

As it turned out, the number of holes I had punched (19 on each side, including the end ones) meant that the ends of the pouch 'stitching' were not the same. If I started by going down into the first hole then I finished by coming down out of the last hole. I wanted to be coming up out of the last hole so that the two ends would look the same.

I dealt with this by doing the two sides 180 degrees out of phase. If the left side was up-down-up-down then the right side was down-up-down-up. This made the ends the same but the sides were out of step. I can live with that. If this makes no sense to you, dont worry. It bent my brain a bit and I had it there in front of me.

The moral of the story is, there is a difference between using an even or odd number of holes.



     

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Mar 6th, 2013 at 4:04pm
David, this's the same I've made with my sling, except for bigger size and making 13 holes instead of 19.
Plus my pouch has some extra leather in the ends which I rolled around the string and fixed with tape.
Have you used your sling?
I think the cord on the perimeter increases accuracy, but I really don't know how. Perhpas it limits the movement of the stone?
Greetings,
Mauro.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by David Morningstar on Mar 6th, 2013 at 4:54pm
One possible factor is that it is bump-free on the end of the pouch. When the cords are tied onto the pouch there is always a rigid bump at that point and this could affect how the stone comes out of the pouch.

I am a big fan of pouches that have two features:

1. The tension is taken around the edges of the pouch and not across the centreline of the pouch. This gives a soft centre with very stable seating of the stone in the pouch.

2. A smooth flexible transition from pouch to cord with no bumps or stiff sections. I no longer use whipping to protect the release cord from wear for this reason.




Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Thearos on Mar 6th, 2013 at 7:02pm
Thanks.

When braiding, I usually put a knot to mark off both ends of the pouch-- resulting in a bump. Perhaps that affects shooting ?

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by David Morningstar on Mar 7th, 2013 at 8:37am

I reckon so. Here is some directly observable evidence of the release cord deflecting a shot, compared to the ideal release:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJjFK68mn0w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvidIcGUXkQ

This is another reason to like a rifled style. The cords slip away down each side of the projectile with minimal interference.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by lakeslinger on Mar 8th, 2013 at 4:28am

David Morningstar wrote on Mar 6th, 2013 at 3:57pm:
Two strands, one for each side which meet up at the final hole at each end and become a 2-ply reverse-twisted cord.

As it turned out, the number of holes I had punched (19 on each side, including the end ones) meant that the ends of the pouch 'stitching' were not the same. If I started by going down into the first hole then I finished by coming down out of the last hole. I wanted to be coming up out of the last hole so that the two ends would look the same.

I dealt with this by doing the two sides 180 degrees out of phase. If the left side was up-down-up-down then the right side was down-up-down-up. This made the ends the same but the sides were out of step. I can live with that. If this makes no sense to you, dont worry. It bent my brain a bit and I had it there in front of me.

The moral of the story is, there is a difference between using an even or odd number of holes.



     

Very beautiful reproduction!
Based on this I started to make a “York-style“  sling that doesn`t follow exactly the shape and size of
the originals shown in the publication. It has also 19 holes on each side, but I´ve sewn the double
amount of strands in, i.e.  on each side one up-down-up-down an one down-up-down-up.  The length  
of the cords was chosen in a manner, that on each end of the pouch there are 3 long strands and one
shorter strand coming out, to start with a 4-strand braid and tapering to 3 strands. The leather I used
is very thin. I haven`t braided the cords yet, but I´m looking forward to try a sling that doesn`t lead to
a bump of ammo, as you wrote.
Until now I had no problems with whipping at the release cord. Usually I don`t tighten the protection
whipping, cause it has only to cover the cord, which so remains almost as flexible as without
whipping.  Some tight and (due to glue) hard whippings I use to attach the pouches e.g. in my
“hunting slings”, but surprisingly it`s them I use actually improving my accuracy. No feeled deflection.
In the past I made a sling, that was cut from one piece of leather  – no whipping or cord attachment
at all. The release was very bad, the leather tended to bend around the stone in the release moment.  
It improved after having added a straight whipping at the release end to make it stiffer. So
sometimes a stiff part on the release cord can also help. I think it depends on many factors like
length and position of whipping, pouch length and stiffness, that influence the physical wave that is
formed upon release.  


Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by lakeslinger on Mar 8th, 2013 at 4:37am
By the way (I forgot to write this before):

great videos as always! I like the slow-motion. It`s a big help to learn and improve techniques

and to eliminate errors.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by slingbadger on Mar 8th, 2013 at 6:28am
That's not slo mo, he actually is that slow. I know, I've met him. ;D  

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by David Morningstar on Mar 10th, 2013 at 3:28pm

You cheeky burger  :P

I used it for the Hod Hill experiment. I found that the pouch did have a slight tendency to slide down and bunch up at the release end. It was easy to slide it back, but next time I would use two cords per side exactly as Lakeslinger describes.




Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by lakeslinger on Mar 11th, 2013 at 5:13am
Finally I could take a picture of the sling I wrote about before. At the weekend I had the opportunity to test it.
Despite of its fragile appearance (0.5mm leather, 3-strand jute cords) the sling performed great, even with stones of chicken-egg size. And I have to admit that I was wrong about what I wrote before. Even if I never
felt a "bump" of the ammo with some of my heavier whipped slings, I saw the difference using the "York-sling". The first throws failed due to a slightly too early release. That was cause in the last 2 weeks I used exclusively "hunting slings" and so I became used to a delayed release.
But after some throws I learned to handle the difference and now I have the same accuracy as with all my other slings. What I like about it, too, that it`s a great EDC-sling. Folded it is small enough to stay even in a jeans-pocket, and it weights almost nothing.
Obviously I had to make another one (the unfinished sling on the bottom).
41-york-sling-01.jpg (168 KB | )

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by lakeslinger on Mar 11th, 2013 at 5:19am
This morning during breakfast I finished the other sling and took a picture of it. Maybe this afternoon I can try it. It`s smaller than the first one but made of slightly thicker leather.
41-york-sling-02.jpg (85 KB | )

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by curious_aardvark on Mar 11th, 2013 at 11:00am
I can confirm the fact that once david got dialled in he was extremely accurate.

Even after climbing up and down two giant ditches while completely and absolutely knackered :thumb:

Mind you I thought we were going to lose him after the first climb to the hillfort itself, that was hard work. ;)

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Bill Skinner on Mar 12th, 2013 at 12:54pm
Will that one also sling lead? Some slings seem to sling some things better than others, a split pouch really shines when you are throwing larger, different sized rocks, not so good with smaller lead glandes.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by squirrelslinger on Mar 12th, 2013 at 3:35pm
Aussie pouches are amazing, but the knots at the end holding cords on...
He sent me 2- I made one with knots at pouch, one with loops!
I used the one with loops more and like it.
Thanks agian Aussie!

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Donnerschlag on Mar 13th, 2013 at 4:07pm
Oddly enough, I've never had a problem with whipping/knots fumbling shots. My problems with erratic release only really occur with cupped pouches. Lightly-cupped pouches are responsive enough, but medium to deep cups just end up causing inconsistent hangups :P

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by lakeslinger on Apr 4th, 2013 at 5:37am

David Morningstar wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 3:28pm:
... I found that the pouch did have a slight tendency to slide down and bunch up at the release end. It was easy to slide it back, but next time I would use two cords per side exactly as Lakeslinger describes.



The benefit of the two twisted strands is, that the cords are lighter. So I wanted to give a try and minimize the problem of the sliding pouch. The result is seen on the picture below. The outer parts of the pouch are slightly twisted inwards on the retention end or outwards on the release end, respectively. That´s o.k., cause it helps to keep the ammo in its place without interfering in the release moment. I tried the sling today morning. It performs very good, releases perfectly and is suitable for smaller stones as I use normally (nice side effect, cause the smaller ones are easier to find).  
44-02-yorksling.jpg (153 KB | )

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by David Morningstar on Apr 4th, 2013 at 3:47pm

Very nice again!

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by David Morningstar on Apr 6th, 2013 at 9:18am

Another Yorkie, this time with four cords running two down each side. I have used cheap cotton string here and I dont know how much wear it will take before it gives up. With jute I would have no such concerns.

 


Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Kick on Jun 16th, 2019 at 3:29am
Resurrecting a very old thread but I thought it was better to reuse and recycle than start a new one :D Later this year we are hoping to attend an Iron Age festival. Lots of reenactors and activities and such. I already have a heavy cloak with a penannular brooch and I'm not too bad at nålbinding, but I thought I had to make some effort to represent slinging. This thread proved to be great inspiration and, though my sling is just inspired and not taken directly from the finds, I think I did pretty ok considering I only spent an evening making it.
tumblr_pt6jv59Lik1rtxwsao7_540.jpg (59 KB | 6 )
tumblr_pt6jv59Lik1rtxwsao8_540.jpg (53 KB | 4 )
tumblr_pt6jv59Lik1rtxwsao9_540.jpg (51 KB | 5 )

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by joe_meadmaker on Jun 16th, 2019 at 8:19pm
I like your take on the design.  And the idea of including a sling with your outfitting, very cool!

Also thanks for the topic resurrection.  Very interesting to see the images and read through it.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Kindor on Jun 18th, 2019 at 12:32am
It is a very good looking sling kick, interesting thread too, thanks for bringing it back up.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Kick on Jun 19th, 2019 at 6:35pm
Thanks! This thread was just what I needed and it was nice to find sling designs I haven't seen before that actually have an historical basis.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Kick on Jul 1st, 2019 at 5:39am
I got to try out the doing a little while ago and one problem was the pouch slipping on the cords. Should have expected it really. For now I've tied knots in the cords but it might need stitching somehow. Not exactly sure how I would do that but might give it a try some time.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by joe_meadmaker on Jul 1st, 2019 at 11:09am

Kick wrote on Jul 1st, 2019 at 5:39am:
one problem was the pouch slipping on the cords.

I ran into the same issue with a pouch design I've recently started using.  The pouch looks kind of like an "X", and the arms wrap around the sides of a split pouch.  It was sliding around after each throw, so I attached it to the cords with contact cement.  Although I don't know if that would work with the sling you have because there's nothing to cover up the not-so-great looking contact cement areas.

I wonder if the pouch would hold in place if you looped the cord through each hold twice.  So each time you go through a hole, loop it back and go through the previous one again.  Does that make sense?

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Kick on Jul 2nd, 2019 at 5:42pm
I think I get what you mean. I think this style looks really nice and I'm sure I can get it to work it just needs fine tuning.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by joe_meadmaker on Jul 2nd, 2019 at 10:01pm
I gave what I was thinking a try.  And I'm glad I did, because it didn't work like I was picturing it in my mind.  It might still be worth a shot to see if it works for this style of sling.  Here's a picture of a sloppy test.



Here is how I did the stitch:

1. Down through hole 1
2. Up through hold 2
3. Down through hole 1
4. Up through hole 2
5. Down through hole 3
6. Up through hole 2
7. Down through hole 3
8. Up through hole 4.
9. Repeat.

You should see alternating segments of the cordage being doubled up.  Basically looping around each segment of leather, and the loop flips each time.

Title: Re: Leather sling pouches from York, UK.
Post by Kick on Jul 4th, 2019 at 9:37am
That does look good. I'll give that a go at some point :D

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