Hallo friends!
I'm not sure I should have posted this topic here, I was thinking about Other topics, but on the other hand I'm showing a warrior, so... Anyway I'm ready to move the thread if you don't like it here.
So, I'm pleased to show you my hypothetical reconstruction of a Picenian slinger, ca. 8th Century b.C.
Picenians lived in my Region at that time, and they were known for their skills as pirates and mercenaries. In fact, Rome hired them as allies first and auxiliaries later, and they were the only Italic population which the Romans had to deport in order to grant the pax Romana. Picenian nasty people  :D

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q503/Mauro-Fiorentini/GuerrieroPicenoFebbraio20132_zpse569f129.jpg

The warrior I had in mind was not a rich member of his tribe, which is shown by the lack of metallic equipment.
He's armed with an iron short sword of Balcanic origins (check here: http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1338743737/0 and http://etadelferro.forumfree.it/?t=62356992) and his simple sling, a weapon of which use we have some evidences dating from the 6th to the 5th Century.
He wear a war belt made of reinforced leather, which he fasten with a simple bronze pin.
This belt will protect his lower stomach, while the chest is protected by the kardiophilax (check here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_-N3bspk-Y).
A kardiophilax was a very primitive kind of protection consisting of a couple of discs or a squares made by various materials and covering the heart and the back. Since my warrior is not rich, his kardiophilax is made of some layers of linen and a sheet of leather, hardened with the use of salted boiling water. Richer warriors and warlords had bronze kardiophilax with iron reinforcements.
Both the belt and the kardiophilax were common among the Iron Age populations in Central Italy, and a type of kardiophilax was produced in my Region. It can be easily recognized by its decorations, therefore I used these decorations for my version.
The warrior is protecting his head with a light cap made of some layers of linen, glued and sewn together. This kind of cap was very common at that time for we have many evidences: bronze and pottery figures from Region Marche, Umbria and Sardinia, a bark example from Southern Germany and a copper one from Region Veneto (check here: http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1358701012).
The linen tunic is a typical short one, as can be seen in many frescoes, pottery and bronze figures of the time. It didn't change until Greek first, and then Roman fashion took its place.
Shoes are not shown for I'm still gathering sources on them.

I will soon add a more detailed review on my forum, and will update this page too.
Any comment would be much appreciated  :)
Greetings,
Mauro.

It looks good.  I have a few questions.  Have you tried slinging in it?  I ask because it looks like you will hit the hilt of your sword with it angled up like that.  Or, does your arm go over it during the throw?  How are you carrying your sling ammuniton?  Should you have a pouch or bag or is that a future project?

Thank you Bill!
Actually, the only evidence I can rely on regarding how they bring their ammunition is an archaeological one: digging a 6th Century male grave near my town, a friend of mine found 13 rounded stones, perfectly polished and crowded together; around them the soil was darker and more greasy than normal. He told me that perhaps it was a leather pouch containing sling ammunition.
I am prone to think that they used some sort of pouch, but they could also have put their stones in the folds of their tunics, or they could have held them in hand.
Actually I already made two leather pouches for my stones, but have found much easier to hold them in hand and twist the sling around the belt once I run out of ammunition.
In this reconstruction, the slinger is going to use a few stones, 5 or 6, and then he goes for a close fight with his sword.
But this is only my personal opinion, because we know very little about that era's warfare: there were duels between chiefs, but also ambush - all this judging by the small sizes of protections and offensive weapons. But there's nothing sure yet.
We may also use Homerus's descriptions of battles to imagine similar ones in the Picenian context, and this would be a legitimate hypothesis too.
Will post a video of me slinging with that sword soon  :)
Greetings,
Mauro.

Looks good man!

I think it needs some dirt to give it a more ancient 'laborer/warrior" look.  :)

Close up pics of the sling would be good, its kinda hard to tell the exact construction method of it there but it looks like there are multiple cords leading up to the pouch but I'm not sure if that is the shadow.

Well thank you Dan!
The sling is nothing sophisticated, just 2 strings and a leather pouch, Teg said it's scrap  ;D Those you see are definitely the string's shadows.
For the dirt... I'm working on it  ;D but you got it right, my warrior is a laborer in times of peace, a fisherman to be honest... I'm trying to cast the bronze harpoons but it's not easy  :-?
Greetings,
Mauro.

Thanks for sharing, Mauro. An interesting reconstruction.

I have some doubts concerning the upward pointed shape of the hat, though, at least for a slinger. I'm almost sure you cannot do an overhead throw without risking to knock it off or tangling up your sling. Even rotating behind your back might get you in trouble when you incline the rotor forward.

Thanks Fundibularius, now that you make me think about it, you must be right, the cap can be an obstacle for the sling.
I really have to test the whole thing!
Greetings,
Mauro.

You may have to become an archer. :'(  

If the hat is thick enough and padded enough, it looks like it is ment to deflect a projectile or a blow off the head and onto the top of the shoulder.  Are you sure there wasn't any armor on top of the shoulder?  Possibly a thick strap of leather sewn on the top of the tunic?  Or just some extra layers of thick cloth?  Some of the contempory Greek armor was several layers of cloth that was glued together, it was allowed to harden and was apparently very effictive.

Yeah, that was the linothorax!
It was exported and used in Italy too, but I was unable to find any evidence of such armor used together with that cap.
Moreover, every source I've found show how this kind of cap was used both in peace and in war.
In peace, because we have the bark conic cap put in a woman's grave dating 8th Century and an unarmed male's pottery figure dating 5th C.
In war, because we have the copper conic cap found in Northern Italy with signs of damages, dating 7th C. and the famous Stele di Novilara (of which we've been discussing here) showing conical head protections together with shields, dating 5th C.
I can't become an archer because there're much less evidences of archery (2 graves) than slinging (a stele showing many slingers, a grave and multiple more recent lead glans).
I'm in a hurry now but will take up the discussion again later!
Greetings,
Mauro.

Dan wrote on Feb 5^th, 2013 at 2:34pm:

I think it needs some dirt to give it a more ancient 'laborer/warrior" look.  :)

Even labourer can wear some brand new clothes ;)
It will dirty by itself after a few trips in the forest ^^


Fundibularius wrote on Feb 7^th, 2013 at 1:32am:

I have some doubts concerning the upward pointed shape of the hat, though, at least for a slinger. I'm almost sure you cannot do an overhead throw without risking to knock it off or tangling up your sling. Even rotating behind your back might get you in trouble when you incline the rotor forward.

No problem with a Fig. 8, a simple underhand or even straight overhand.

Here's a thought, could Caldou have just rediscovered how slingers actually threw at that time?  I think that it actually makes a great deal of sense and sounds quite logical, it lets the slinger throw while wearing the correct clothing of the time.  Possibly Mauro should write a paper about his findings.

Caldou wrote on Feb 7^th, 2013 at 5:36pm:

No problem with a Fig. 8, a simple underhand or even straight overhand.

Maybe, but without going into detail about the advantages and disadvantages of fig.8 and the other two methods, why sacrifice versatility in slinging styles for a pointed or crested hat/helmet? And do not show most antique pictures people slinging overhead?

Compare the current thread http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1360162104

If I'm not mistaken, no antique picture show people in a slinging motion. They're all readying their shots ;)

And why choosing one style to specialise into and wearing some fancy protection over being able to sling using 10 differents style with a less deflecting protection ? I don't really know ::)

Please keep in mind that I never wanted to say those people definitly use one of those style, only that it's possible to sling with those helmets on :)

Even an apache style would work (but not with the starting position they show on the greek side of the world)

Personally I think it is quite possible, or even likely, that the classic Greek throw was a figure-8. There is nothing in the initial pose illustrated on coins to preclude that.

Also, what we call the 'Greek' style here was a hypothetical reconstruction made in the early days of this forum. It has no historical source whatever, save the images on Greek coins of the starting position. A lot of us carry images in our head of slinging involving whirling around the head, and I think that influenced the reconstruction more than it might now.

There is very little necessity to whirl the sling over the head, and to do so seems to me to carry very little benefit, except possible necessity with a long sling.

Would not "stretching" the sling before a fig8 rather be in a vertical instead of a horizontal position? That's what I would do, anyway.

I don't want to say that fig8 or the other two styles didn't exist back then, but my opinion is that overhead was far more common due to a number of reasons. And, sorry, I don't mean what is usually called "Greek" style here by saying "overhead". Helicopter is the word (several rotations above your throwing shoulder, with variable angles).

Our gallery of antique slingers  http://slinging.org/index.php?mact=Album,m5,default,1&m5albumid=4&m5returnid=53&page=53 shows some of them in full action. The only ones who wear "high" head gear are the Assyrians, all others have flat helmets or caps or hair nets on or even go bare-headed.

Fundibularius wrote on Feb 8^th, 2013 at 6:15am:

Would not "stretching" the sling before a fig8 rather be in a vertical instead of a horizontal position? That's what I would do, anyway.

I really don't know. I find it (found it - I havn't been able to sling for some time :() very natural to go from what seems like the 'ready' position seen on the coins into a figure eight. It is little more than drawing the arm back to its fullest extent and then, having allowed the sling to pass around the 'other side' of the arm launch in to the throwing motion.


Quote:

I don't want to say that fig8 or the other two styles didn't exist back then, but my opinion is that overhead was far more common due to a number of reasons. And, sorry, I don't mean what is usually called "Greek" style here by saying "overhead". Helicopter is the word (several rotations above your throwing shoulder, with variable angles).

I realise you don't mean 'Greek' style - it's just this was the conjectured action drawn originally from the coin illustrations.

I suppose the difficulty I have is how horizontal was the plane of the sling during the wind-up? It doesn't seem to confer any advantage to have the plane passing over the head in a generally horizontal plane rather than in a more vertical plane which would tend to avoid the head gear.

Quote:

Our gallery of antique slingers  http://slinging.org/index.php?mact=Album,m5,default,1&m5albumid=4&m5returnid=53&page=53 shows some of them in full action. The only ones who wear "high" head gear are the Assyrians, all others have flat helmets or caps or hair nets on or even go bare-headed.

I agree with you about the head gear, but I'm unsure how much to attribute that to necessities of a slinging style. I simply don't know.

Three rotations above the head is explicitly attested in Latin sources (I think Virgil, and Vegetius, who says one is actually better). Of course, these are not from Greek sources. But I would agree with Fundi. that the starting position seen in many Greek visual documents suits helicopter-style best.

Dear friends, I'm glad my topic is evolving in this way, you all are very experienced and I think your opinions are very important for my reconstruction.
Someone suggested me to write a paper, well I already did it because EXARC was going to publish it, but the deadline was last 1st of November and I was engaged in my training at that date.
Therefore I paste the article here, hopefully it will clarify some points on the equipment I've adopted:

"A Picenian warrior who lived in the 8th Century b.C.: a hypothetical reconstruction.

Iron Age in Central Italy is a period that begins in the 10th Century B.C. and ends as the Romans take control over other Italic populations. Italy is divided longitudinally by the Apennines and the definition “Central Italy” includes the actual Regions Lazio and Toscana on the West side of them, Umbria in the middle, Marche and Abruzzo on the East side of the Apennines. These Regions border on Regions Liguria and Emilia-Romagna on the North, Campania and Molise on the South. We also have the Tyrrhenian Sea on the shores of Lazio and Tuscany, and the Adriatic Sea adjoining Regions Marche and Abruzzo.
Various populations inhabited this territory from the 10th to the early 3rd Century B.C., when the Roman army takes full control of it: Laziali and Sabini in Region Lazio, Etruscans and, from the 5th Century, Celts in Toscana and Emilia Romagna, Umbri in Region Umbria and Picenians in Regions Marche and Abruzzo.
At the beginning of the Iron Age, and until the 8th Century at last, we have evidences of other populations as well, the most ancient being these belonging to the “Sub-Apenninical culture”: Villanova and Proto-Villanovan populations, that seem to have had towns in the Region Marche: Ancona, which is one of the most ancient towns on the Italian shores of the Adriatic, its most ancient evidences dating back to the Neolithic, Fermo and Ascoli Piceno. There are also signs of Eastern European cultures, such as the Illyrians from actual Albania, and other Balkan populations.
Celts conquered the upper half of Region Marche around the 4th Century B.C., founding the town of Sena Gallica, actually Senigallia, 30 kilometers north of Ancona, which by that time was known as the Greek colony of Ankon.

Here’s my hypothetical reconstruction of an Iron Age warrior. This warrior is born and grows up among the Picenians, during the first years of the Orientalising era. Hence he lived between Regions Marche and Abruzzo, between 8th and 7th Century B.C. (Various Authors 2001 pp. 5-35).
The figure that I reconstruct is a middle-class worker; I’ve been inspired by the funerary outfit found in the fisherman-warrior grave in Ancona (Lollini 1972 pp. 117-151, Various Authors 2001 pp. 277-278).
It was the poorness of this outfit, if compared with other graves, that stimulated me to undertake experiments with organic materials, and to propose new interpretations for some archaeological findings.
This study method is applied to the equipment of my warrior, which I’ll describe from top to bottom.

The hat is made of 5 layers of raw linen, glued and sewn together making a cone. It’s a rigid and enveloping headgear, which leaves hearing and visual free. It offers a limited protection against direct blows, but it can be useful in deadening weak blows not aimed directly at  the head. It’s an economical way to protect the head that was widely spread among many Iron Age cultures (Various Authors 2001 pp. 27 and 33, Martinelli 2004 p. 25, Torelli 2000 p. 190, Homerus X 261, Hencken-Saulnier 1971 pp. 27-28, 58, 85 fig. 58, Wary 1980 p. 44. Also compare archaeological findings such as Sardinian and Oscan votive figures stored at the Archaeological Museums in Cagliari, Sassari and Nocera Umbra)  .
The short tunic is made of raw linen; due to the lack of evidences among the Picenians (Various Authors 2008b), I modelled it on the near Etruscan frescoes (Torelli 2000 pp. 344-363), adopting longer sleeves that would give better protection than shorter ones against small abrasions and a small rope as belt.
The kardiophilax is composed of a pectoral and a dorsal disc, one bigger than the other (Various Authors 2001 pp. 120-121, 240-243, 252-254, Various Authors 2008b pp. 209-210). Each of them has been made by pasting together 4 layers of linen, then sewing them to a leather disc, which has been then hardened with boiling salted water. I replicated the suspension system which can be seen on the Guardiagrele Warrior and on the Capestrano Warrior (Various Authors 2001 pp. 240-243), using a leather strap and a smaller string. The decoration represents the chimera, which is typical of the “Paglieta” kardiophilax, dating 8th-7th Century (Various Authors 2001 pp. 120-122, 253). It’s the poor version of the widely spread bronze kardiophilax. Tested against a rock thrown with a sling from a distance of 15 meters, the cuirass absorbed the impact, but it’s not clear what damages the warrior would have taken.
The sword belongs to the “Novilara” type, being a short curved sword, single edged with a thick back and a long tang (Various Authors 2001 pp. 200-201, Lollini 1972 pp. 117-151, Maroni 1992, Varrious Authors 1999 p. 54). Forging it from a raw iron ingot required 6 hours and 6 kilos of vegetal coal, a quench in sweet water followed and the result is a strong iron, enriched with carbon (Fiorentini 2011). The handle is in yew wood, decorated with “dice’s eyes”, and the sheath is in leather, lightly hardened with boiling water and decorated with motifs typical of the era (Peroni 1979, see also unpublished razors at the Archaeological Museum of Ancona). The suspension system with three leather strings has been hypothesized judging by the one seen on the Capestrano Warrior (Various Authors 2001, pp. 240-241), and has been adapted for the use of two bronze rings like these found near the sword of the fisherman-warrior in Ancona (see the unpublished rings stored at the Archaeological Museum of Ancona). This system has proved to be functional for the suspension and drawing of the sword, hence confirming some hypothesis including the speed of pulling a slashing blow (Various Authors 2001 p. 114) and the possibility to obtain the disposition of both sword and rings as the originals in Ancona, making plausible the existence of such a suspension system in that case too.
The sling is made of two leather strings and a pouch; it’s 90 centimeters long and has been used to throw many kind of bullets: irregular shaped stones, rounded stones, replicas of biconical and rounded clay bullets found in Southern Italy (Radmilli 1975 fig. 20), replicas of lead glans found in Ascoli Piceno (Naspi-Radelli 2011) and replicas of the winged lead glans found in Cyprus (Naspi-Radelli 2011, also see www.slinging.org). These various bullets gave different results for  flying speed, air drag and ability to penetrate their targets; the maximum distance achieved was about 140 meters. Further distance tests made with another sling, a shorter braided one, barely reached 60 meters. The use of slings among the Picenians seems proven by the naval battle in the Novilara stele (Fiorentini 2011, Various Authors 2001 p. 33, www.slinging.org), dating 7th Century, and by some unpublished bullets (recent findings in Sirolo).
According to the smallness of the fisherman-warrior funeral outfit, I reconstructed the equipment of a humble warrior, a slinger from the scant economic means. For this reason, and because of the few sources (Various Authors 2001 pp. 256-262, see also unpublished footgear stored at the Archaeological Museum of Chieti), I decided not to realise neither shoes nor sandals.
But my warrior is unshaven, a common practice judging by the great number of retrieved razors (Dall’Osso 1914, Peroni 1979), and has an excellent sword, the first iron weapon that could outmatch bronze ones (Fiorentini 2011, Various Authors 2001 p. 114). His desire to emulate the richest warrior pieces can be seen from the accurate decorations of the sword’s handle and sheath, and of the kardiophilax; a practice that will decline with the  increasing Greek influence, characterized by a standardization of styles, will gain ground in the civilian and military life of the Picenians.


List of references:
Dall’Osso I. 1914, Guida del regio museo Nazionale, Ancona.
Fiorentini M, 2011, ‘Lavorare con il fuoco. La metallurgia fra aspetti tecnici e storici per un’interpretazione antropologica’, teshis, University of Macerata.
Hencken H, Saulnier C 1971, The earliest European helmets, Harvard.
Lollini D G 1972, ‘Sintesi della civiltà Picena’, Jadranska obala u protohistoriji, vol. 23, X.
Maroni G. 1992, La civiltà Picena nelle Marche, Ripatransone.
Martinelli M 2004, La lancia, la spada, il cavallo – il fenomeno guerra nell’Etruria e nell’Italia centrale tra l’età del bronzo e l’età del ferro, Centro stampa regione Toscana, Firenze.
Naspi A. Radelli E 2011, ‘S(hort) M(essage) S(ervice) ante litteram – antichi proiettili iscritti e insulti di guerra’, Forma Vrbis, year XVI no. 2.
Omero, Iliade, X.
Peroni 1979, ‘I rasoi nell’Italia continentale’, Prähistorische Bronzefunde: Rasiermesser, vol. 2, Abt. VIII, C. H. Beck’sche Verlagsbuchhandlung.
Radmilli A. 1975, Guida alla preistoria Italiana, Sansoni, Firenze.
Torelli M 2000, Gli Etruschi, Bompiani, Cinisello Balsamo.
Various Authors 2001, Eroi e regine – Piceni popolo d’Europa, Edizioni De Luca, Roma.
Various Authors 2008a, Giulio Cesare – l’uomo le imprese il mito, Silvana, Roma.
Various Authors 1999, Piceni popolo d’Europa, De Luca, Roma.
Various Authors 2008b, Potere e splendore – gli antichi Piceni a Matelica, L’Erma di Bretschneider, Torino.
Wary J 1980, Warfare in the classical world, London.
www.slinging.org".

Any doubts you have, just ask  :)
Greetings,
Mauro.

Just a couple of notes on the article above:

- I didn't made the war belt at that time, which is the leather belt you can see in the picture at the beginning of this topic.
- I modified the sword's suspension system since I wrote the article, and it is now much more effective and stable while moving.
- Information on slings and slinging are not definitive, as I'm not exactly a skilled slinger  :) Feel free to add your experiences on this!

Greetings,
Mauro.

As far as you not being a skilled slinger, you are head and shoulders above the rest of the authors who have published articles about slingers.  Second, you are doing research that is making the past more understandable, you had to modify certain parts of your outfit to make them work, such as your sword sheath.  There is a large difference between what looks like it will work and what actually works.  Now practice slinging and see what actually works compared to what everyone thought worked.  And then publish the results, that way, the informations doesn't get lost again.  And who knows, if you publish enough, people will start referencing you as the expert.  Because you will be, and you will have done it through practicle application.

Now that's a true encouragement!
Thank you Bill, but I don't think I deserve that much! I'm quite embarassed now and don't know how to put it, but I just try to follow the logic of things... I thought that this cap was a good protection, but Fundibularious's doubts on it made totally sense to me! Then Caldou came proposing some styles that wouldn't be affected by the cap - intelligent opinion too.
All I have to do now is try how it works  :)
Thank you!
Mauro.

Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Feb 8^th, 2013 at 10:27am:

All I have to do now is try how it works  :) Thank you! Mauro.

Yes, practice is the only way to go. Thanks to you, and keep us informed.

"Grau, teurer Freund, ist alle Theorie, und gruen des Lebens gold'ner Baum", to quote old Goethe. ;)

Hallo people,
I resume this post just to let you know that these editors were so kind to contact me again and ask me about the article; they're going to publish it in an online (I think) volume that will be out next 15th of June  ;)
This's the journal: www.Journal.EXARC.net
Greetings,
Mauro.

Excellant!

You didn't change the unshaven to clean shaven !

Or is that not the copy you actually sent them ?

>:(
I really hope they will change it - I'll write them an email tomorrow!!!
Thanks C_A!!
Greetings,
Mauro.

You havent specified how the sling was measured, i.e. folded length or end-to-end. I think you should also mention that other modern slingers get greater distances with the same ammo.

Thanks David, you're right about the length, I attached a picture of the slinger wielding the sling (the one you can see in my sign) and I hope it will make clear that the sling is 90 centimeters folded  :-/
As for the results, I hope the references to the forum will be enough to tempt the reader and make him take a look at our site  ;D
Greetings,
Mauro.

Guys, I need some help!
I'm about to publish my article and the last amendments they asked me is about footnotes.

Quotes:

Quote:

Concerning the footnote: I think you need to put book titles into italics, put page reference in parenthesis (page 27, 33) and write figure in full. That would make the situation clear for everybody.

This is an example of the footnote as I wrote them:


Quote:

Alfieri N. 1990, I porti e gli approdi. La viabilità dall’Esino al Tronto. in Vie del commercio in Emilia Romagna Marche, Cinisello Balsamo.

I can't understand how should I modify it.
The book's title is already in Italics, I will add page references but what does it mean "write figure in full"?????
Greetings,
Mauro.

I think they want something like "Mauro Fiorentini" instead of "Fiorentini M.".
And I find it sad, since your presented them correctly for a librairian (and scholar) point of view (if we forgive the lack of pages ;) )

The fact is, that they asked me to put references in "Harvard style". I googled Harvard style and found a .pdf published by that university in which they explained how they want references to be written, step by step.
My in-text references have pages, but they asked me to modify the footnotes, so I'll add pages there, too.... I just can't understand what "write figure in full" mean....
So full name you say? I'll try that, if it's not what they want well, they have editors and reviewers, I'll leave them the pleasure to correct the footnotes  ;D
Thanks Caldou!
Mauro.

I think that Harvard style is so someone can go directly to a quoted reference and see what, exactly, you are talking about.  Heaven forbid they actually have to read three or four WHOLE pages, much less the book to understand precisely what you mean. ::)

Ehehehe yes they may risk to learn something new....  ;D
However, the reviewer just received the modified article. She'll read it during Easter (Happy Easter everyone!!!!!). I hope she'll like it because I'm embarking next 16th of April and I don't have a lot of free time these days  :)
Greetings,
Mauro.