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General >> Project Goliath - The History of The Sling >> Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Battle https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1339048579 Message started by jlasud on Jun 7th, 2012 at 1:56am |
Title: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Battle Post by jlasud on Jun 7th, 2012 at 1:56am
It's been a while since i come home from those battles..they were a blast! :D So it's time for me to share some pictures for those who are interested in historical reenactment and ancient battles etc. We were "fighting" in Sarmisegetuza (no pics :o) and Deva. In Sarmisegetuza we were in a amfiteatrum and i had good room to slinging..with tennis balls towards the furious Dacians. I hit one of them in the leg..others were hit in the shield.
The sarmatians as they were mercenaries,often changed "teams". Some pics from Deva: Here the Dacians bashing their shields,The longest haired is a warrior priest who always shouts out loud: DACCCIAAAA LIBERAAA!!!! (Free Dacia) then,they charge :D A few sarmatians on their right flank |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 7th, 2012 at 2:00am
The charge :D with the centurio left without shield,as Dacul mic si rau ( the small and bad dacian nicked) guy with a grapling hook? pulls out his shield then he furiously slashes towards him. That freakin weapon can really scare me..he attacked me several times and he acts like he would really want to kill someone :o
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 7th, 2012 at 2:02am
In the roman line..i'm a barbariaaaan in the romaan army (like an englishman in New York)
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 7th, 2012 at 2:04am
Roman legionaries at the command: Sagitariii!! Me reloading and slinging towards them. After this i got behind the shield wall and the sarmatians were loosing field tipped arrows to the shield wall :o
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 7th, 2012 at 2:07am
This picture gives you an idea what a charge looks like ;D Dacians jumping across corpses and Dacu mic si rau is "in the making" of a 3\4 inch dent in my shield's umbo. And he has his grapling hook?'s point well rounded and slashing half hearted :o
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 7th, 2012 at 2:08am
Centurio: PARATI!
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 7th, 2012 at 2:10am
You can't mess with Sarmatian amazons :P me in the background cutting the throat of the Dacian warrior priest..no more DACIA LIBERA!!
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by David Morningstar on Jun 7th, 2012 at 2:58am Great stuff! |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jun 7th, 2012 at 7:02am
Ehehe you like to serve the Roman Empire eh?
Roma aeterna est ;D Cool pics, I like re-enacting, looks like you had a great time! Add some horsemen wielding machairas (if it was still in use under the Empire) and you're done! Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Dan on Jun 7th, 2012 at 3:06pm
Looks like a lot of fun. When we have renactments here in the states there's usaully a lot more black powder involved. :)
I guess thats what they do on that side of the pond. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Jauke.H on Jun 7th, 2012 at 3:13pm
You look badass with your haircut and beard. Nice pics, looks like fun :)
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jun 7th, 2012 at 3:32pm
You Rastaroman!
Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Bill Skinner on Jun 9th, 2012 at 11:20am
I like that. Not only are you having a great time, you are teaching people.
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 9th, 2012 at 2:30pm Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 7:02am:
Burn Rome! I wish the roman empire would have been beaten to dust in it's early years. We had a good time indeed ;) We had two dacian horseman in Sarmisegetuza wielding sicas. the romans formed a circle and they were circling us.. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 9th, 2012 at 2:31pm Dan wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 3:06pm:
We have a wider variety of ages to reenact :P |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 9th, 2012 at 2:33pm AncientCraftwork wrote on Jun 7th, 2012 at 3:13pm:
Which haircut? :D just kidding |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 9th, 2012 at 2:33pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syCuIzUupqY
A very crappy video,that won't do justice ..and it wasn't our best battle |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by timann on Jun 9th, 2012 at 5:47pm
All this is really cool, seems like lots of interesting fun and excitement.
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Pikaru on Jun 9th, 2012 at 10:45pm
You never cease to impress. Very, very cool. Nice job on your outfit. You look great.
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 10th, 2012 at 1:17am
Thanks guys! It's fun and thankfully everyone returned to home healthy. Usually 1-2 bruises,a little blood but after such metal flinging it's a wonder that everyone's in one piece :)
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by timann on Jun 10th, 2012 at 4:13am
It`s fun as long as nobody loose an eye or a tooth ;)
timann |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jun 10th, 2012 at 5:50am
And if they will, it'll add realism to the representation ;D
By the way, I also often wonder how Europe would be now if the Roman Empire failed... then Monty Python's "Brian of Nazareth" enlightened me: Arab rebel:"Stop the Romans! What did they do for us?" A moment of silence... and then:"They gave us the aqueduct" "And sanitation" "And roads" "And irrigation.... medicine.... the school.... and the thermae!". Arab rebel:"Ok ok but regardeless of this, what did they DO for us?" "They brought the pax!" ;D ;D It's a funny piece, try looking for it on YT, it was the People's Front of Judea ;) Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by David Morningstar on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:00am The crowd loved it and the kit looks excellent. You should try and get video of you slinging with your Roman friends. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 10th, 2012 at 3:24pm timann wrote on Jun 10th, 2012 at 4:13am:
The worst injury since the group was founded,was a guys half pinky finger was cut..he was playing dead and the battle was over and another guy sticked his spear in the ground,without much attention i guess,full of adrenaline.. Also the public in this case was a bit dangerously close to the roman shield wall,IMO as the concave shields can easily ricochet an arrow sideways,towards the crowd..I'm not satisfied by the management of how things are done in the group,and i'll make some safety suggestions. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jun 10th, 2012 at 3:28pm
I strongly suggest you to wear gloves and, these who have them, to reinforce your helmets with steel bands (some Roman originals were reinforced with additional iron crosses).
Stay safe!! Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 10th, 2012 at 3:42pm
The roman legionaries have their forearm leather band? which protects their shield holding arm,from the shield knocking their skin of.
One of the romans has reinforcements on his helmet,but helmets are very rarely hit,as we try to maintain the gear in shape.Exception are the shield which are hit quite badly everytime,so it makes loud battle noise. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jun 10th, 2012 at 6:42pm
When I was a mighty archer re-enactor, helmets were my favourite targets, that's why I wrote that ;D
But using short ranged weapons, you're wise to aim mainly to the shields, it's spectacular and safe, nice combo! Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 11th, 2012 at 1:04am
most arrows the archers use are field tipped ones..and they shoot it at the roman shield wall.They also have some arrows with wine corks. These could also put an eye out ..so no head high aiming.
Also these reenactments are mostly improvisation so we have no spectacular coreografies |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jun 11th, 2012 at 4:07am
Judging with the public's eye, I bet every re-enactment is spectacular, whether it's organized or not ;)
When I was an archer and shoot at people I used shorter arrows, so that I couldn't fully open my bow, therefore giving less power, and they had wine corks too. But the bow was a 55# at full draw, so a good hit could do bad to a face - that's why I aimed to closed helmets or shields ;) Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by curious_aardvark on Jun 13th, 2012 at 11:39am
Certainly looks like fun :-)
And the 'grappling hook' weapon is actually a billhook. Standard farming implement for slashing brush and branches and - obviously - an excellent weapon as well :-) But whoever took that video obviously had the shakes bad. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 20th, 2012 at 2:28pm
C_A thanks for clearing up things :) billhook..actually the worst weapon i've ever faced...it can pick roman shields like a forager picks strawberries ,hits,cuts,slashes,punctures like no other weapon...excellent tool
They told me that it used to be an agricultural tool for slashing branches. It's funny how most agricultural tools of the time could be used as effective weapons.Add to this that work hardened peasants,who used these tools all day long since childhood..of course not trained soldiers they were,but not the peasant with a stick image that tends to get depicted usually,either. Here's an original roman (the historian told me ,the guy that uses it) found in Sarmisegetuza.Also some keys are visible and a Massive door hinge. Personally i don't see how the romans used a billhook in Dacia..they didn't use it as a weapon,and i can't imagine them,clearing branches of trees either,while in Dacia. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by perpetualstudent on Jun 21st, 2012 at 1:20pm
Slightly related: The roman shield's handle puzzles me. I just finished a book on the history of the roman empire and they, like you guys, note that there is a single bar horizontally placed in the center of the shield. The book argues that it made it easier to punch with the weapon. While Viking shields and other "sword and board" re-enactors tend to place that bar handle running vertically.
Since you've had experience holding them, what do you think of that way of holding the weapon? Are they equivalent? Is it because of the rather unique shape of the scuta? |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Caldou on Jun 21st, 2012 at 4:54pm
The Celtics one too have a horizontal handle, and they are also long.
They have some metal on the bottom, so they were offensive weapon first and after defensive. And that's easier to carry them on a walk, on the vertical. PS : Sorry, those senteces don't make much sense, but I'm somehow tired ^^ |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 5:22am
Caldou is right, it's easier to carry a shield (especially a big one like Roman and Celt's) if it can be hold on the vertical, it's much more balanced.
Jlasud, remember me I've to send you a picture of a billhook found in my Region and dating to the 5th century b.C. :) Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 7:06am
I knew I had already uploaded it here:
http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1338566873/15#15 last page, scroll down until you see it! Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by perpetualstudent on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 10:37am
I can definitely see how it would be easier to carry with a horizontal handle but it seems that punching loaded with the extra weight would actually be easier with a vertical handle, less stress on the wrist that way. But then I've never actually held or handled one, so I could definitely be wrong. And the slight dabbling I've done with fighting in the youth SCA style didn't allow shields to be used offensively which was how the Romans preferred to use theirs. I defer to the greater experience good sirs ;D
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 3:15pm
Actually, you're more experienced than me, for my fighting experience is related to the bow only :)
Why don't you try to build a shield with a horizontal handle?! It would be a nice amusement, and you may tell us how it feels in fighting! Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 23rd, 2012 at 11:22am perpetualstudent wrote on Jun 21st, 2012 at 1:20pm:
Yep,it's easier to carry (99% of the time it's carried,the rest is fight) and in fights it's also easier to hold.It's heavy,at least 6kg. That being said,you can't really box with it,more like push it into the opponent,but that is done by holding the shield with the left and you push the gladius either on the upper or lower horizontal wooden reinforcement,depending where it has to be held.I couldn't see it being better to push with it,if it had a vertical handle.In all the other tasks it's better with a horizontal grip.Except carrying a spear held in the same hand with the scuta.Probably it would have been too heavy ~6kg+1-2kg Pilum in one hand |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 23rd, 2012 at 11:24am Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 5:22am:
Yep. Mauro,remember that you want to send me a picture of a billhook found in your region ;) |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jun 23rd, 2012 at 9:18pm Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Jun 22nd, 2012 at 7:06am:
Eerrrr... ::) ;) Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 24th, 2012 at 12:44am Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Jun 23rd, 2012 at 9:18pm:
Ahham,cool,although i like the form of that i've posted,better. The one from 5th century BC,looked really small.Maybe it was made specially for fighting,so it's faster to wield? |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by bigkahuna on Jun 24th, 2012 at 11:47pm jlasud wrote on Jun 24th, 2012 at 12:44am:
Or, maybe it was just made as a farming tool. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jun 25th, 2012 at 12:58pm
Hallo!
Yes, the Roman billhook is better, and show the improvements in iron working that took place between the 5th century b.C. and the (I suppose) 2nd A.D. The Picenian one was made for farming only, because it has been buried along with other farming tools: a hoe and an axe. Plus we have no evidences that the Picenians used other pole arms besides the spears. Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 25th, 2012 at 3:27pm
Thanks for clearing it up!
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jun 25th, 2012 at 4:25pm
Thanks you for your picture ;)
When did the Romans arrived in Dacia, was it during the 2nd century? Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by bigkahuna on Jun 25th, 2012 at 9:53pm
Emperor Trajan conquered Dacia around 115 AD.
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jun 26th, 2012 at 6:58am
How stupid I am :-[
What I meant is, to what era refers jlasud's re-enactment group. Mr. Trajan departed from my town to conquer Dacia, and he was so happy with our docks that he celebrated the conquest with a triumphal arch: Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jun 26th, 2012 at 7:15am
There were two wars:101-102 ;105-106 AD
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jul 19th, 2012 at 3:38am
News from the battle fronts..last weekend we had another reenactment show,it was fun,as always. I'll post some pics for those interested in this kind of crazy stuff.This time we had a ballista and pretty much total number of group members.
We had a parade march at day and at night and a battle. The battle had this scenario: The Legio XIII is marching in Dacian territory.We stop camping. The dacians saw us comming from their castel and they attack us. One of us sees the incoming dacian horde,and shouts: CENTURIO!!! BARBARUS!,then the centurio gives the command: MILITES! PARATI!! everyone draws swords,the slinger has it's sling ready. I sling two painted tennisballs into the dacian army charging. They defend themselves with their oval shields. We attack them in wedge formation,after that the dacians retreat back to their castle. The romans see a group of sarmatians chilling out close by,and they recruit them,and they join us. Then the romans take a siege ram and take it to the castle's gates,and start bashing it.Meanwhile the sarmatian archers loose arrows that stick into the gate,and the slinger is slinging tennis balls to the dacians on top of the wall,trying to pin them down,to cover the ram and it's crew.I just hit shields,no real hits. The gate is broken,and the melee begins. Huge casualties on both sides,i get cut down,the romans retreat,and the few remaining dacians cut down the rest of the romans. The result of the battle was pre planned and the dacians won,unlike in history,just for the sake of the Dacian Castle's Festival. The roman line: |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jul 19th, 2012 at 3:40am
The dacian warcry :P
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jul 19th, 2012 at 3:41am
Roman wedge into dacian troops
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jul 19th, 2012 at 3:42am
Siege ram deployment
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jul 19th, 2012 at 3:43am
The slinger takes a shot on a dacian,on top of the castle wall. Serious mug shot LOL ;D
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jul 19th, 2012 at 3:49am
The ballista.Cranking up this beast is music for my ear ticktickticktickticktick tick tick tick :D it wasn't tensioned of course to max,just barely,yet it managed to put a 4-5 oz dart just between two planks in the dacian castles gate so hard we had a hard time getting it out.
Another dart fell short,about 2m in front of the gate,it ricocheted and split a 1" plank in two :o Distance was about 70m and shot about 20 degree elevation. With this tension max distance would have been around 150m and potentially deadly. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jul 19th, 2012 at 3:50am
I tried to post as few images as possible while trying to show something from all the happenings. If your interested in more,i can post some more, a few days later.
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jul 19th, 2012 at 5:52am
Nice history and well written too, fantastic pics, gears and clothing as always! ;D
A pity you changed the history :( but if the public already knew the "real" history, no problem then ;) Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by David Morningstar on Jul 19th, 2012 at 8:12am That looks like a fantastic event! What material is being used for power skeins in the ballista? |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by perpetualstudent on Jul 19th, 2012 at 4:16pm
Awesome pics. Looks like it was a lot of fun.
Last question about the shields (from a page ago :-[ ) For battle do you hold them overhand, like gripping a bike handle? Or underhand, like gripping a dumbbell to do curls? |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Lugh-Lamhfada on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:37am
Amazing event!
The Getai are one of my favourite groups, anyone who made the Romans have to redesign their armour due to having their heads collapsed in and limbs hacked off by falx and sica get into my fan book. Some Getai units from a historical mod game http://www.europabarbarorum.com/factions_getai_units.html |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Caldou on Jul 21st, 2012 at 9:28am perpetualstudent wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 4:16pm:
Overhand, it's less tiring and you want to keep your stamina for cutting arms and splitting heads longer than they do... |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jul 21st, 2012 at 3:25pm Mauro Fiorentini wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 5:52am:
Yep,most people know that the romans finally conquered Dacia and it's said that they took about 225 tonnes of gold and 500 tonnes of silver. I can't guarantee you that it's true,but i've also read that the Rome flourished after they got home from the war and their currency got weakened from introducing a huge amount of gold and silver. Maybe you know more about this,and you can correct me.I just know some things superficially and i may be wrong. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jul 21st, 2012 at 3:28pm David Morningstar wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 8:12am:
Synthetic cord,dunno the exact material though. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jul 21st, 2012 at 3:34pm Lugh-Lamhfada wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:37am:
Yep,overhand,and they usually hold the shield also with their left knee,when pushing,or defending against a charge,and also using the gladius to hold the upper part of the shield. So with the knee on the bottom,hand on the middle and gladius on top,the shield can withstand a full charge of Dacian horde :D Also when they try to pull the shield down with the billhook,or the falx,the roman soldier uses his knee to keep the shield from pivoting in his hand. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jul 21st, 2012 at 4:17pm
Very short shots from the whole battle,and demonstrations..unbelievable that they can't make good videos about such events. 30 people gather from all over the country,bring literally tonnes of equipment and they make 20 sec videos?? under critique.
Here's a demo about 2 romans vs 2 dacians.You can see how that damned billhook can catch a shield or get under the helmets neck guard,to cut the romans neck. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhwwxL1XT6g&feature=related Here a short vid of the attack after the Dacian fortress gate has been broken with the ram. A newcome sarmatian lady is also fighting on my side :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEmYh1Wo7o8 |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jul 21st, 2012 at 6:12pm
Jlasud I bet what you wrote about the Romans plundering Dacia is true - no chance that a population can live in peace with another if there's an Empire involved >:(
Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 2:10am
I'm sure that the romans took gold and probably everything worth carrying back.The numbers are more in question. But it was enough to pay the legions and remain enough to make a jump in roman economy so it was substantial. It's no wonder,there are a few gold mines around here.
It's funny how nowadays they take Rosia Montana with politics and cheap tricks,without any fighting. And it works because people are stupid and divided. Empires rise and fall.Time is right,and destroys everything that's not. Babylon,your throne's gone down. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Jul 31st, 2012 at 5:23pm
Sarmisegetuza,3 battles bfore..
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Jul 31st, 2012 at 6:05pm
Jla did you change something in your sword?? And what can you tell me about your shield's boss?
Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Aug 1st, 2012 at 5:56am
well the scabbard got some bronze sheet on the nose and on the end,as visible.Also I've put a shoulder strap for the scabbard,as it originally was.First times,i hung it from the belt.Now the scabbard goes with the shoulderstrap to hang on my right,then i tie the belt on it,so it holds the scabbard from flip-flopping during charge PERCUTAA!.
The shield boss was made by me,and it has an outer diameter of 22cm and the hemisphere,the diam. of 15 cm. It's been hammered from an iron sheet of 1.5mm,into a pre-carved hard wood trunk mold,with a ball peen hammer. Can't find the cam's uploader cable..so no pics for now |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Aug 1st, 2012 at 7:04am
I knew there was something new ;)
Good work with that boss, don't forget to add it to our blacksmithing threads! What are the archaeological or historical references for the boss? It looks like a Celtic type to me. Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Aug 1st, 2012 at 9:23am
The boss has been hammered cold,so it's not quite balcksmithing,but i can add a photo,and a short description if you still want.
As far as I know,there were mostly hemispherical bosses along with cone shaped ones as well. Hemisphericals were very widespread and used in many,many cultures. Caetra shield remains have been found with such shape,and general size. It's what iberians used,and also people of the balearic islands. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Aug 1st, 2012 at 9:30am
Iberians also adopted things from celts,and people on the balearic islands were probably in the crossfire of very busy ship trade routes,so i think equipment was more divers and not so well defined as we might think of it today.
Out of a few or many thousand slingers,there were probablu with\or without shield,variations of the shield and it's size. Variations of swords..some might haven't even carried one,or picked up one after a battle...threw the old one etc. About as many slingers they were one the balearic islands as much divers their equipment must had been. My shield is 55cm diam. and weights about 3kg and it's made of 3x 4mm laminated wood.It would stop arrows from a warbow,stones,glans from a sling,sword blows,one hand axe blows etc. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Jaegoor on Sep 4th, 2012 at 12:58pm
my sword Smiley
handmade bei jaegoor |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Jaegoor on Sep 4th, 2012 at 1:02pm
my shild
handmade by jaegoor and ikea |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Sep 4th, 2012 at 2:20pm
;D
Ikea ist fantastisch! Aber dies ist eine Diskussion über alt Osteuropa Krieger, und ihre Waffen sind ältester der etwa 1000 Jahre. Bitte offnen Sie eine andere Diskussion ;) Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Jaegoor on Sep 4th, 2012 at 3:15pm
mauro, ikea war ein scherz. :P der kleine rundschild ist in dieser form ok. Das schwert ist nordisch um etwa 1000. Und passt nicht ganz. Ilja sein schwert ist eher keltisch und passt in dieser form etwas besser.
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Sep 4th, 2012 at 3:43pm
Hallo!
Ihre Waffen sind interessant und gut gemacht, aber sind nicht relevant zu diesem Thema (Bericht über eine Re-Inszenierung), noch die Zeit (Römischen Reiches). Aber Ich glaube, dass Ihre Rekonstruktionen ihren eigenen Raum verdient, dafür bitte ich Sie um eine erstelle :) Danke! Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Jaegoor on Sep 4th, 2012 at 4:19pm
sorry mauro. Warum ist der schild nicht relevant. Diese form wurde oft von auxilar truppen verwendete.
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Thearos on Sep 5th, 2012 at 11:08am
I'm with Mauro here (mildly) the topic is C2nd-3rd centuries AD reenacting. Jaegoor's kit is very nice, but not a reason to show it off all the time, since his reenacting focus is C10th AD. If Jaegoor wants to stay on topic, he can delete the pic of his his teacosy-pommel sword, and keep his shield, while giving relevant info.
More important is the question of shield weight. Reenacting kit is usually much too heavy in relation to the real stuff: swords being blunt are too heavy and unbalanced; I think this also holds true for shields. The reasons are safety (bluntness of swords), and need for durability (the kit has to last through several sessions, especially shields). Thus real mediaeval swords are light (under a kilo one handed, 1.3-5 kgs for "longsword"), Gladii are probably in the 700 g range. And so on. Does this hold true for real shields ? 3 kilos for a small shield seems very heavy to me (though Peter Connolly's reconstructions of Roman Republican shields reach the weight of 8 kilos !) |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Sep 5th, 2012 at 4:21pm
That's exactly what I tried to explain to Jaegoor, thanks Thearos :)
Your discussion about shields and swords weights made me wonder how much does my Iron Age sword weights; I already know it's supersized compared to the originals, because I'm probably bigger than my ancestors who used them - which does not mean I'm stronger, it's just a matter of proportions. But now I'm going to weigh it, even because it's sharpened and weight was one of its advantages while facing contemporary bronze sword. Thanks Thearos, it will be a nice addition to the article I'm writing :) Greetings, Mauro. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Oct 1st, 2012 at 4:57am
As I was looking forward to this opportunity,and others here,suggested it too,not long ago,at the last reenactement,i was at,members from a Hungarian reenactment group brought one of their battered shield and ask me to sling at :D
So i slung about 10 stones from about 15m at it, till i got it with a 210g quartz stone. Before this i was slinging lightweight safety ammo at the dacians so,i had to readjust to heavy stones. The shield was 8-10mm plywood(have to ask) and held up only with a thin stick.The sling was 90cm long. With a long sling,pro slinger,and oval shaped stone a very similar damage could be produced at long ranges(~150m) The shield is more or less like the originals in it's caracteristics IMO. |
Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Oct 1st, 2012 at 5:00am
The stone originally bounced off,and the shield fell .
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Oct 1st, 2012 at 5:02am
It would pretty much stop a sling stone,even it it would pass,it would have very little power. But it would leave a big hole. A "fortunate"spear thrust could pass trough the hole afterwards.
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by Bill Skinner on Oct 1st, 2012 at 9:24am
That is very interesting. There wouldn't be just one person slinging, if the Romans didn't charge or have their own screen of slingers or archers, they could take a lot of damage. I didn't say causalities, but with their equiptment battered by slingers, when they did close, their equiptment would not be able to stand up to combat as long as it should. So, while the slingers probably could not make them retreat or break, they could be a major reason why one force wins or loses, and they probably wouldn't get much credit, either.
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Title: Re: Roman+Balearic slinger vs Dacian+Sarmatian Bat Post by jlasud on Oct 2nd, 2012 at 2:12pm
Yes,Bill that's what i tried to point to,briefly with the spear through the hole. Having a shield with say 5 holes in it would decrease your protection considerably. And even in a testudo formation there would be a few injuries and deaths too. Remembering that ~400g stones were used sometimes. But a surprise hail of stones would put a helluva beating on a engaged unit.
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