Slinging.org Forum
https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl
General >> Other Primitive Weapons >> Simple Atlatl
https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1328429380

Message started by kentuckythrower on Feb 5th, 2012 at 3:09am

Title: Simple Atlatl
Post by kentuckythrower on Feb 5th, 2012 at 3:09am
My very first spear thrower was nothing more than a maple sapling. I found one in the woods that had a small branch growing off one side and cut the sapling off just below the branch. Then I cut the small branch about a quarter inch from the fork and whittled a dull point to form the "hook". Next, I measured the sapling from my shoulder to wrist and cut it to length. It worked like a dream!!! I cut some cane to use as "spears" and was in business for the better part of a day...talk about having fun!!! Nowdays, folks are making and selling all sorts of atlatls and darts, but my stick and river cane seemed to work just as well as anything on the market.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by David Morningstar on Feb 5th, 2012 at 5:49am

Yep, simple spearchuckers are a blast  ;D

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by kentuckythrower on Feb 6th, 2012 at 3:26pm
As with many of the prehistoric tools and weapons, the simpler they were to make and use, the better. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here, but all the additional bells and whistles really don't add up to a hill of beans insofar as performance goes. Take bows for example, one can be made from a stick for next to nothing and will produce the exact same results a $400.00 to $600.00 compound bow set up. The fact of the matter is, I went hunting with a fellow that had to have all the latest scientifically designed equipment before he could even think about taking to the field...I carried a homemade set...stickbow and bone tipped arrows. Despite all that 21st century equipment, I'm the one that brought home some meat. Now tell me, which one of us came out ahead in this deal?

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by LukeWebb on Feb 8th, 2012 at 9:27pm
 I would love to see one of your bows and your arrows!  I am making stickbows right now myself, from saplings leaving the bark on as a backing.  So far in 3 months I have had 3 duds due to flawed wood, (can't have too many knots...) and 5 successes though a couple aren't completely finished but are tillered.
  I love making atlatls from a branch, I really see no drawback in distance, speed or accuracy from a fancy atlatl to a branch atlatl.  I even made one while I was out hiking one time, I made the atlatl from a birch branch and then I went to a defunk beaver dam and found a dried out spruce sapling that was straight lying near the dam and oila! beaver made atlatl dart, it was well balanced as it was and hit point first nicely, I was rather surprised.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Little on Feb 9th, 2012 at 9:49am
I made a simple one before too,  just out of willow branch and a straight thin sapling,  boyyy did the dart go far,  no fletching or anythin coudn't find the dart,  all I had was a small knife to make it twas amazing.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by kentuckythrower on Feb 9th, 2012 at 12:54pm
This is exactly what I was driving at. It seems to me that nowadays we get too wrapped up in technology and have a tendency to forget simpler designs work just as well as those with all the additional bells and whistles. Some of the modern spearthrowers I've seen are works of art, but when push comes to shove, nothing can beat my forked stick.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Rat Man on Feb 9th, 2012 at 2:07pm
Good post, kentuckythrower.  This is exactly what I like about slinging.  All you really need is a piece of string or a bootlace and a rock.  

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Feb 9th, 2012 at 2:16pm
Thumbs up to what KT wrote!
How do you think they made these throwers of which I sent you pictures? Man, they date to 25'000 years ago, they carved bones with a stone blade! That's amazing!
Greetings,
Mauro.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by kentuckythrower on Feb 9th, 2012 at 2:30pm
Precisely!!! The beauty of slings, spearthrowers, bows, etc., is their inherent simplicity. I personally rail at seeing all this modern archery gear and the attendant literature guaranteeing it's effectiveness...WAKE UP!!! Why in the world would I want...or need to spend my hard earned money on something like that when I can cut a bow from a log or plank for next to nothing? All I'm looking for is basically a spring that will shoot an arrow into my target at xyz range with some degree of certainty. If my .50 cent weapon works just as well as one going to $500.00, I'll stick with my sticks...they bring home meat too.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Little on Feb 9th, 2012 at 2:34pm
Good point,  personally I wanna sell my compound bow,  they seem complicated to maintain,  spent $350 for it,  ahhh the things we do to waste money -_-

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by kentuckythrower on Feb 9th, 2012 at 2:45pm
Truth be known, my very first bow was one made from an old ash tobacco stick. My dad made it for me when I was five or six years old. I used small canes as my arrows and it worked like a dream. I honestly cannot see spending several hundred dollars on hunting equipment when I know for a fact I can make something with my own hands that works just as well.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Feb 9th, 2012 at 3:23pm
My first bow was a rattan one who a guy sold me for 125€ (about 100 bucks more or less).
The bow served me well for a couple of tournaments and then bended inexplicably!
I then bought some rattan for the astronomical expense of 7 Euro (5 bucks?) and made 2 bows and a crossbow's bow with it.
I gave away one of the bows and am still using the other one, 2 years after I built it with an axe and a rasp  :)
No way I make my self arrows, though: I usually grab one or two from someone else's quiver  ;D
Greetings,
Mauro.

EDIT:
Dave, why don't you post pictures of your self made hunting gear? I'd like to see it!!
Make new posts or use existing ones  :)

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by kentuckythrower on Feb 9th, 2012 at 3:35pm
As soon as I get one of the computer wiz kids around here to show me how to do it, I'll get some pictures and video's posted for everyone to see. I am about as computer illiterate as they come and my friend's say I was born about 1,000 years too late.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by me2 on Feb 10th, 2012 at 7:30pm

kentuckythrower wrote on Feb 6th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Take bows for example, one can be made from a stick for next to nothing and will produce the exact same results a $400.00 to $600.00 compound bow set up.


I'm going to go against the majority and say this sounds a little far fetched.  I think you're mixing up your skill at bowhunting with the quality of the bow.  Many people will try to make up for lack of skill with technology.  However, when you have both, you have a combination that's unbeatable.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by thabaill on Feb 10th, 2012 at 7:43pm
Hi

Some years ago I persuaded a friend that is a carpenter for making an ash wood longbow, the same type as the English Medival war longbow. That bow was really terrible as we broke at hte first shot our homemade arrows we used a wooden mop pole as an arrow. The bow was so powerful that it worked. We made it go through a 20mm chipboard.

The problem was that the wood was fresh and not very well seasoned and it bended more and more with use until the bow became a circle.

Some years later my friend bought a 60 lbs. compound bow but it was a nightmare. When you buy a compound bow you begin to spend more and more money in things that the bow need. It is really very  expensive. As I am a poor man I always shooted with a bow that someone lent me.

I am not enough tough (or hungry) to be a hunter, so I don't know very much about it. In Nothamerica you have dangerous animals that are a dream for hunters, not like here that the deers we have are the size of a goat and the animals are raised and hand-fed for hunting (I'm sorry but they are not actually wild, some are like pets left alone in the country and even they approach to you asking for food). I have read in a book about bowhunting that you must shoot not very far (the farthest about 30m).  A range that I think that someone can almost reach with an atlatl. The main difference is that with a bow the shooted animal don't know what happens and with an atlatl it can charge on you as it can see you moving your arm and body, if not, it will run away when you begin to throw or perhaps it can avoid the dart as it flies slower than an arrow.

Watching this videos I think that if they had used an atlatl they could have killed the moose. What I am not so sure is that if the moose could have charged dangerously.

http://youtu.be/c_6RH6u5_1Q

http://youtu.be/2433vrL8qVs

http://youtu.be/gZ5JDXhWvVw

Excuse me if I am wrong.

I miss the Pleistocene megafauna too. Specially sabre-toothed cats.

Greetings.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by kentuckythrower on Feb 12th, 2012 at 6:59am
thabaill,

That bow you made was more than sufficient to bring down just about anything here in North America. There have been cases over here where folks have succeeded in dropping Whitetail deer using simple bows with draw weights as low as 25lbs. Manufacturers of modern bows will have you believe that their particular product is the "only" way to successfully hunt, but this isn't the case at all. All they're trying to do is generate income...buy this...buy that...on and on.

Please don't get me wrong here, I am a big proponent of advanced technology, but when it comes to primitive weapons such as slings, spearthowers, bow, etc., I want to keep them just as simple as possible. These weapons have been around for God knows how many thousands of years and despite all the hype foisted on us my various manufactures, the basic examples are more than effective in getting the job done.

While I'm at it, let's talk a bit about personal satidfaction in relation to simple homemade weapons vs. expensive commercial versions of the same thing. With homemade, we do everything from start to finish...absolutely everything is the result of us as individuals. Seeing how we're relatively simple folk, our homemade weapons are simple too...and diabolically effective after we master their use. With the commercial versions, we, as individuals have effectively been taken out of the equation. Folks are duped into buying this...and that...and by the way...it just won't work until you buy this gadget too. HOGWASH!!!!!!!!! Personally speaking, there's nothing quite like making your own equipment and learning how to use it with effect. With my simple slings, spearthrowers, and bows, I can do just as well as anything being sold in the market commercailly. Plus, I have the satisfaction of knowing it's all my doing.









Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by thabaill on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:38am
Hi

Kentuckythrower, I agree with you.

A 70lbs. compound bow is something very powerful and it is a pleasure to shoot one and feel its power. But you will spend a lot of money and you will be almost the same time tunning and adjusting it than shooting.

If you can make your own weapons and if that weapons are as effective for your purposes you don't need that fancy ultra modern machine. After all a bow is a stick and a string, the more components that it have the more prone to break or malfunction it will be.

If people have hunted for thousands of years with spears, atlatls and bows bigger animals than the ones that live nowadays, why that weapons wouldn't be effective today. I think that even that ancient weapons were sadly too effective, because there is no mammoths or mastodons alive today.

Best regards.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Mauro Fiorentini on Feb 13th, 2012 at 7:51am
On a side, I invite you archers to look for a book called "Catene operative dell'arco preistorico - Incontro di archeologia sperimentale".
Authors were P. Bellintani and F. Cavulli, and it was published in 2006 in Trento.
They've found some Bronze Age bows in a village in Northern Italy, and have built replicas, using them for hunting.
It's a very nice book as it compare a dried bow with a green one, like these found in the village  ;)
Even if it's written in Italian, it's full of pictures and will surely be a precious add to any archer's library!
Greetings,
Mauro.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by thabaill on Feb 19th, 2012 at 4:47pm

wrote on Feb 17th, 2012 at 12:28pm:
I can't remember the name of the program or what network it was on. I stumbled on it one afternoon while flipping through the channels. They took 8-10 men and women, put them in an alpine environment, Colorado/Montana maybe, took thier clothes and gave them skins to wear. They had to "survive" for 10 days. No one there knew about the flora or fauna, no one there seemed to have any pre-1800 skills, no one built anything substantial other than a hide covered stack of sticks to sleep in. They didn't seem to do much but sleep and complain about each other. Into the 5th day or so, a gentleman came in with a handful of atlatl. He showed them the basics and part of the group went out hunting. They were able to walk in close enough to a herd of elk, threw their darts into the mass and stuck one of the animals in the neck, eventually killing it. It was little interesting and tragic at the same time.


Perhaps it could be this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdjS3LW93M8&feature=email

Hi Mauro

Thank you for the advice. I will try to find that book.

Greetings.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on Apr 24th, 2012 at 2:02pm
One hour ago, maybe,  I didn`t have an atlatl, but I do now.  It is pretty primitive so I just use this thread to show it.  
I cut down a couple of hazel saplings for darts some days ago, just in case, so I just whittled out dimples in the ends before I used them.  One is as long as I am, 180 centimeters, the other is slightly longer.  
The atlatl is ash, I think.  Almost as long as my arm, before I could cut it down by trial and error to right lenght I realized I could make a "dart rest" with the spare lenght.  
It is slightly havier than I wished, but it is the one I found, and it doubles as a small club :D.

I have just done some 20ish test throws and is pleasantly surprised.  I did play around a little last summer, learned the basic throwing, and now it went surprisingly well.  Meaning darts went point first pretty often in the general direction I wanted on short range.  Maybe I`ll make some duct tape fletchings later.  This stuff is just for fun, I leave it on site on a nice practice spot, and the more unconspicous the better.  The kindergarten has their "spot" as shown near by and there is plenty of curious kids around during the day.
timann

DSC00294.JPG (328 KB | )

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on Apr 24th, 2012 at 2:05pm
How I hold the atlatl.  I whittled a pinky stop which made gripping the thing just right.
timann
DSC00295.JPG (354 KB | )

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Atlatlista on Apr 24th, 2012 at 2:35pm
Very nice!  Simple branch atlatls are a lot of fun.  Also, you can use roots of trees, and they have a lot of room for figural carving.  I like Eastern Red Cedar best for that.  I made one look like an ugly toad once.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on Apr 24th, 2012 at 2:43pm
I`ll try to make a real atlatl, with some real darts, later.  You know; bring home, dry out, straighten, shape...  I could probably make a nice kit if I was willing to spend time doing it, as opposed to minutes, as I did on this one :D.
It does the job as survival atlatl, though.  And is fine for a little training :)
timann

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Atlatlista on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:13pm

timann wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 2:43pm:
I`ll try to make a real atlatl, with some real darts, later.  You know; bring home, dry out, straighten, shape...  I could probably make a nice kit if I was willing to spend time doing it, as opposed to minutes, as I did on this one :D.
It does the job as survival atlatl, though.  And is fine for a little training :)
timann


Absolutely, I didn't mean to imply otherwise.  The cool thing about making darts that I've found is that once you have the materials at hand, they're super fast.  It takes me about fifteen minutes to make a dart and that includes cutting the feathers for fletching, chewing the sinew, all of it.  The really time-consuming part is collecting the materials and getting them all together.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on Apr 25th, 2012 at 10:34am

wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 8:13pm:

timann wrote on Apr 24th, 2012 at 2:43pm:
I`ll try to make a real atlatl, with some real darts, later.  You know; bring home, dry out, straighten, shape...  I could probably make a nice kit if I was willing to spend time doing it, as opposed to minutes, as I did on this one :D.
It does the job as survival atlatl, though.  And is fine for a little training :)
timann


Absolutely, I didn't mean to imply otherwise.  The cool thing about making darts that I've found is that once you have the materials at hand, they're super fast.  It takes me about fifteen minutes to make a dart and that includes cutting the feathers for fletching, chewing the sinew, all of it.  The really time-consuming part is collecting the materials and getting them all together.

I didn`t mean to imply that you ment to imply... :D  
I simply want a better looking atlatl, with the bark removed and other luxury.  This one was in fact nice, and I`m particularly proud of the dart rest, a little U-shaped channel to steady the dart in the front. Made it feel way better than the one I had last summer.
timann

I made this little atlatl video, because I suddenly could ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbyWO0XXLwo

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Bill Skinner on Apr 25th, 2012 at 1:47pm
When you take the bark off, the wood will split as the water in it evaporates.  To stop it from splitting, simply rub in some vegatable oil or some type of fat.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on Apr 25th, 2012 at 1:57pm

Bill Skinner wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 1:47pm:
When you take the bark off, the wood will split as the water in it evaporates.  To stop it from splitting, simply rub in some vegatable oil or some type of fat.

I have always used the other way, I leave it to dry out by itself and hope I forget about it, at least for some months :)
timann

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Pikaru on Apr 25th, 2012 at 2:00pm

Bill Skinner wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 1:47pm:
...to stop it from splitting, simply rub in... some type of fat.


I volunteer my stomach!

Just gave you a visual didn't I?  :o

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on Apr 26th, 2012 at 11:39am

wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 2:00pm:

Bill Skinner wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 1:47pm:
...to stop it from splitting, simply rub in... some type of fat.


I volunteer my stomach!

Just gave you a visual didn't I?  :o

Aaargh.  Two horrible but conflicting visuals.  Hopefully I`ll feel better soon  :o
timann

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Bill Skinner on Apr 27th, 2012 at 12:34am
I thought you were about to start scrapeing and whitteling to make them look pretty while they were still green.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on Apr 27th, 2012 at 10:51am

Bill Skinner wrote on Apr 27th, 2012 at 12:34am:
I thought you were about to start scrapeing and whitteling to make them look pretty while they were still green.

That is what I`d normally do, the trick is to leave a little extra length, as green wood will usually crack in the ends.  It will be a good idea to gather materials for future, in this case, atlatl and darts, and leave them to dry, while working and practicing with green wood now.
timann

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by kentuckythrower on Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:04am
Here's the latest information I have been able to find out at archaeological sites over here in the U.S... Generally speaking, spearthrowers (I refuse to use the term atalatl any more) generally run the length of the arm from the shoulder to the finger tip of the owner. In other words they were sized to the individual and each one is unique. These devices could be as simple as a forked twig trimmed down to serve the purpose, or a much more elaborate contraption made of an antler/bone/ivory hook and handle. Either way...it's all the same when push comes to shove.

Another thing to keep in mind is that even though we can take a spearthrower and launch a dart much further than than we could throw by hand, this weapon "system" was much more effective a close range...just a few yards/meters. I don't know how many of you have ever hunted deer and the like, but they have an uncanny capability to see motion...they are somehow able to see/sense any movement outside the ordinary. Hence...in order to hunt deer with a spear thrower, you don't want to move a lot. with a spearthower, all you need to do is flick your wrist and away the dart goes...with a great deal more force than if hand thrown.

Also...with primitive weapons, the idea IS NOT to out an out kill your prey in one shot!!! The idea is to incapacite it to the point you can get up to it to make the "kill". Forget all this modern theory of sportsmanship!!! When it comes to feeding yourself and a family, sportsmanship is completely out the window...we need meat!!!

Another thing...drive this image of a lone hiunter out of your mind when you're thinking about hunting with a spearthrower. Evidence has shown hunting in groups is the most effective means. The most effective method we are able to use is to drive game into a 'kill zone" and shoot them enmass. It's an absolutely brutal business, but it brings home the meat. I have participated in these hunts and can  tell you that you can lay up enough meat to last you a year. The idea is to incapacite the game to the point you can get on it and bash it's head in to kill it.

While I'm at it here. let me tell you this...big game...namely deer in my area area, are STUPID ANIMALS!!! They can be herded and driven like catle and I cannot see why so many fiolks are so wrapped up in deer "hunting". Truth be known. my son an I used to lay up enough meat we ended up having to donate the majority of it to the local food bank so it wouldn't go to waste. Unlike many hunters in this area, we went for meat and disregarded "racks". I mean WTF??? Over??? The idea behind hunting at the subsistence level is getting food...not antlers. There are are folks that come in here from all over the country to get "racks"...antlers. Hell. if you want antlers, just walk through the woods and pick them up from the shed. My son and i are all about meat...food, and can't see the attraction folks have to antlers...Damned New Yorkers!!!

While I'm on a roll here. my son and I hunt with simple homemade wooden bows, and both of us are absolutelty mind blown with all the modern weaponry and accoutrements coming in here for the sole purpose of "bagging" as deer. Danmned!!!!!!!!!! Camouflage...cover scents...high velocity rifles...laser range finders...ha ha ha. I guess some folks are as stupid as the deer. Let me tell you what's the truth here, animals are STUPID!!!!!!!!!!! All the crap you may see on the television hunting programmes is a load of horse dump. My son and I hunt in our normal work clothes. Siince I am old and my eyesight's failing, my son is the "shooter". If we need meat, I will go out and herd the deer to him. he takes up a position and I swing around the deer to herd them into our "kill zone"'. he takes the shot and we both run the deer down...finish it off with an axe to the head. That may seem really brutal to a lot of folks, but to us, that's life.

Sorry...i have digressed. sperarthowers are actually deisgnd for close range work. based upon my experience with wild animals, we can get really close to them without spooking them. With a spear thrower, all it'd take is th flick of the wrist within 15 meters or so to get the job done. Ulike "modern" humting, the primary issue out ancesotrs faced was getting meat and "sportamanship" was out the woidow.








Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by kentuckythrower on Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:10am
sorry about the tyopos in the above.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by kentuckythrower on Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:10am
damnit!!! typeos.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by kentuckythrower on Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:12am
ha ha ha...you get the point!!!

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Morphy on Apr 28th, 2012 at 5:04pm
Very interesting stuff Kentucky.  It would be interesting to see the reactions of "primitive" people who actually had to survive by hunting if exposed to our modern day view on it. And I agree with you, I never could understand the attraction of antlers.




Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Dan on Apr 28th, 2012 at 6:39pm
I am also rather disguted by the new "hunting" community. Every as the gear get's more high tech and expensive the less of a hunter you have to be. I also have a similar view of fisherman with sonar and $300 rods and a host of artificial baits. These guys simply miss out on what hunting and fishing is all about, besides product.

I have a pretty good feeling it wasn't entirely "just for meat" and that- even back then- the men enjoyed the hunt and respected the kill.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Bill Skinner on Apr 28th, 2012 at 7:48pm
I, personally, like large deer with large racks.  More meat and the rack supplies all sorts of tools.  Pressure flakers, notching tools, batons, handles and a whole bunch more tools.  And one more thing, only about 30% of the live weight of the animal is actually edible, so bigger is better if you are hunting for food.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Pikaru on Apr 28th, 2012 at 8:40pm
Most of the time I keep my mouth shut about hunting. Admittedly I laugh to myself at range finders, and scents and anyone that ambushes big game from a manufactured blind or tree stand on a white tail deer path and laugh most especially at anyone hunting around feeders and salt licks. It's like hunting geese at the city park with a bag of stale popcorn and a five iron.

I prefer larger animals too, more meat and if I need antlers it's easier to pick them up off the ground or through trade. For many people pound for pound game meat is typically many times more expensive than meat from the market.

We primarily harvest elk and sometimes mule deer. I don't think about whether they're smart or dumb but do believe that they are much more experienced and instinctive in the wild than modern man is now.

We usually hunt remote areas and won't bring back anything we're not going to eat so skin, head, bones and fat are all left for the coyotes. We can completely strip an animal down to the bone, taking everything in a few short hours. If I want anything other than meat, it means I have to hike back one or more times to get it. As far as trophies our motto is, "Antlers don't make very good soup."

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by kentuckythrower on Apr 29th, 2012 at 4:05am
I think I may need to clarify my earlier remark at this point as I detect some consternation amongst the readers here. IMO, the first and foremost object of hunting is to harvest meat and everything else is entirely secondary. I completely understand why some folks wish to shoot for antlers, but let me tell you the truth, a big bodied doe is just as good as a 12 point buck when all is said and done. My son and I have killed our share (and more) of both and they both eat.

I reckon we're lucky here in that we've got the property to hunt on and have access to a really big herd of deer that never seem to be under any sort of hunting pressure...besides us two. In our area, the farmers are being overrun by deer and get what are called depredation permits. This means it's flat out open season on deer. My son and I have become so effective using these so called "primitive" weapons, we have farmers actually giving us their permits just to thin out the herd a little bit. Between the two of us, we lay up so much meat we are actually feeding about twelve indigent families in the county. When we look at these animals, we don't pay any attention to antlers, but do concern ourselves with weight...the idea is to get as much meat with the least expenditure of effort.

Now...as far as using as much of the animal as possible. I will salvage as much usable material as I can. Being a flintknapper myself, if there's antler to be had, I will cut it up to make pressure flakers and such, I also get all the sinew I can lay my hands on. The hide is tanned and turned into backpacks and such...or cut into tugs if we're running low on tie down material. The waste is fed to the dogs. By the time we get done with a deer, there ain't nothing left of it but a memory.

I have had dealings with "hunters" coming in here from large cities...primarily NYC, Chicago, and the like. These folks have watched more hunting shows and videos that I could shake a stick at and tell me they know all there is to know about the ins and outs of bagging a big buck. They've got equipment with them that looks like it came from a Star Wars movie and despite me telling them they don't need all that stuff, they will look at me like I'm some sort of ignorant hill jack and off they go. At the end of the day, they come in dragging their tail and all dejected looking. What really sets them off is when we're standing around talking...them with no deer in hand, and here comes my son dragging in one, carrying nothing but a stickbow and a couple of arrows...then saying there's another one laying dead up on the hill. My advice to all you city folks...LISTEN!!!

While I'm thinking about it, did you know that a deer actually walks on ready made arrowheads? If you're really interested in using all of the deer, take the hoof apart and have a look at the toe bones. Each hoof has two little pointed bones that can be modified in a matter of minutes into serviceable arrowheads. All it takes is honing down the point a little bit and boring a hole in the base for your arrowshaft. They work like a dream too!!!










Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Atlatlista on Apr 29th, 2012 at 9:32am
That bit about the arrow-head hooves is fantastic information, kentucky.  Have you had any experience making anything out of the dew claws of the deer?  I keep thinking they'd make cool atlatl spurs, but I've never harvested a deer, so I don't know.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Morphy on Apr 29th, 2012 at 4:19pm
No consternation here. I'm not a deer hunter but I still get the same gut check you do when I see the "whack'em and stack'em" crowd. I hate the over commercialization of hunting.

Wish I lived next to one of your guys. I would love to learn how to deer hunt from an expert. No one in my family hunts or even likes primitive weapons so I've never had the guts to go into the field by myself lest I screw up butchering the deer horribly.  One of these days maybe.  :)

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on May 9th, 2012 at 3:42pm
I have used my branch atlatl for two weeks, and I really like atlatling now.  With my simple hazel sapling darts, with duct tape fletching, I have aquired at least some rudimentary accuracy, so much I`m surpriced myself.  My best shot so far was today, I directly hit the base of the spruce tree shown in the video I posted earlier, from over 20 meters (I paced it to 22 meters).  It was not even pure luck, my other far back shots was almosts and glansing blows.  
Usually I throw from shorter distance, around 10 meters.  I`m more interested in accuracy than distance, and my darts isn`t that straight ;)
timann

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Atlatlista on May 9th, 2012 at 3:47pm

timann wrote on May 9th, 2012 at 3:42pm:
I have used my branch atlatl for two weeks, and I really like atlatling now.  With my simple hazel sapling darts, with duct tape fletching, I have aquired at least some rudimentary accuracy, so much I`m surpriced myself.  My best shot so far was today, I directly hit the base of the spruce tree shown in the video I posted earlier, from over 20 meters (I paced it to 22 meters).  It was not even pure luck, my other far back shots was almosts and glansing blows.  
Usually I throw from shorter distance, around 10 meters.  I`m more interested in accuracy than distance, and my darts isn`t that straight ;)
timann


It's awesome to hear that you're enjoying the atlatl.  One thing to try is throwing from 20-40 meters and getting used to the arc of the dart.  This will help your accuracy a lot.  I also find that if I mentally imagine I'm throwing a ball to a friend when I'm doing it, I tend to be more accurate.  The long distance shots can be startlingly accurate with an atlatl, because your body sort of knows where a thrown object will end up.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on May 9th, 2012 at 4:02pm

wrote on May 9th, 2012 at 3:47pm:

timann wrote on May 9th, 2012 at 3:42pm:
I have used my branch atlatl for two weeks, and I really like atlatling now.  With my simple hazel sapling darts, with duct tape fletching, I have aquired at least some rudimentary accuracy, so much I`m surpriced myself.  My best shot so far was today, I directly hit the base of the spruce tree shown in the video I posted earlier, from over 20 meters (I paced it to 22 meters).  It was not even pure luck, my other far back shots was almosts and glansing blows.  
Usually I throw from shorter distance, around 10 meters.  I`m more interested in accuracy than distance, and my darts isn`t that straight ;)
timann


It's awesome to hear that you're enjoying the atlatl.  One thing to try is throwing from 20-40 meters and getting used to the arc of the dart.  This will help your accuracy a lot.  I also find that if I mentally imagine I'm throwing a ball to a friend when I'm doing it, I tend to be more accurate.  The long distance shots can be startlingly accurate with an atlatl, because your body sort of knows where a thrown object will end up.

I`m used to the mental ball throwing, that`s how I aim with the sling.  Therefore It seems surprisingly easy to aim with the atlatl even at some distance, I just lift the point of the dart and it usually end up more or less right.

The trick is to calibrate the aim by throwing a tennis ball to a friend (I use my brother or son) from time to time :)
I often imagine the tennis ball is a stone, and suddenly throwing a tennis ball is a martial art :D
timann

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Bill Skinner on May 9th, 2012 at 9:48pm
I like hunting.  And, no, you didn't put me off, I have pretty much the same idea about a lot of modern hunters.  

I managed a place for a rich guy for several years, he and his buddies would show up with all the high tech gear, the latest compound bows, and all that neat stuff.  Freaking 7mm and .300 Weatherby Magnum rifles for a whitetail.  They couldn't kill a deer if it didn't have its nose in a pile of corn in front of a shooting house.  Most couldn't shoot worth a dam, either, because they never practiced and they were afraid of the recoil of their rifles.  Before I quit, I spent a LOT of time blood trailing gut shot deer.

I really didn't consider those people hunters, they came up to get drunk and get away from their wives, with some time in the woods thrown in.  And they shot deer, mostly does and small bucks because they weren't smart enough to figure out that the large bucks usually won't come to a spot where you just shot a doe with a rifle that was designed to be used in Africa.

KT, have you gone deer hunting with a dart caster and darts?  The advantage is no noise, you don't have the thump of the bow string.  Disadvantage is all that motion, you need a brush blind or to be behind a tree when you throw.  Never tried a tree stand, it would probably work, you better have a good safety harness or some real soft ground.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by muddog15 on May 10th, 2012 at 9:07pm
I just made my first Atlatl and darts and I'm trying to figure out how to throw the things.  I use stuff from Home Depot to make everything,  I know I can do the deed because I have got them in the target 4 times so far but most of the time the 4ft darts go wild.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Atlatlista on May 11th, 2012 at 9:53am

muddog15 wrote on May 10th, 2012 at 9:07pm:
I just made my first Atlatl and darts and I'm trying to figure out how to throw the things.  I use stuff from Home Depot to make everything,  I know I can do the deed because I have got them in the target 4 times so far but most of the time the 4ft darts go wild.


With 4ft darts it's the spine issue.  They're short enough that they don't flex, so your dart tip is probably going every which way on release.  You should try longer darts if you can get the materials - at least five feet, preferably six or even seven feet.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by muddog15 on May 11th, 2012 at 11:57am

wrote on May 11th, 2012 at 9:53am:

muddog15 wrote on May 10th, 2012 at 9:07pm:
I just made my first Atlatl and darts and I'm trying to figure out how to throw the things.  I use stuff from Home Depot to make everything,  I know I can do the deed because I have got them in the target 4 times so far but most of the time the 4ft darts go wild.


With 4ft darts it's the spine issue.  They're short enough that they don't flex, so your dart tip is probably going every which way on release.  You should try longer darts if you can get the materials - at least five feet, preferably six or even seven feet.


My darts are 3/8"x 4ft,  I don't have any wild resources in my area of Florida to harvest,  that's why I'm using stuff from Home Depot.  I'm thinking about trying some 1/4"x 48" inch dowl rods for darts, I think they are going to break on me though either during the throw or at impact.  My sister is about an hour away from me, she says she has a ton of bamboo on her property that I can go get I might do that.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Bill Skinner on May 11th, 2012 at 1:19pm
A couple of thoughts, 1.  You can make the dart flex if you put a heavy point on it, a  heavy wire wrap or a couple of nuts screwed on the end should do it.  2.  Above the Artic Circle, neither the darts or the throwing board flex when they are thrown, Little posted a video not too long ago that showed a seal hunt with them.  Look at his throwing style, it is not quite the same as what is used by people with flexable dart casters.  3.  I wasn't worth a hoot for the first couple of times, it does take some getting used to, check out the World Atlatl Assoc. on Paleoplanet, there are several links that show how to throw.  

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Atlatlista on May 11th, 2012 at 2:40pm
Yeah, that harpooning vid shows no flex in the dart, but you can see how much the point wants to drift off target that way.  The guy doing the throwing must be really experienced to control a dart that size/shape.  Also, I think the downward trajectory helps in this case somewhat.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Little on May 11th, 2012 at 5:21pm
Yeah,  its best when longer range than the vid I shown then it would be in an arch rather than a straight line,  when the dart pans out the weight forwardness balances it like a small football with flights on it,  thats when its most deadly.  And you dont need to use a flexible atlatl,  Ive used flexible darts and it still works fine throws em far too.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Rat Man on May 11th, 2012 at 6:06pm
Probably most of you have seen this already, but just in case:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr3QxYvEF0s

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Rat Man on May 13th, 2012 at 3:15pm
You all have got me thinking now.  I haven't messed much with the atlatl yet because I was thinking that the atlatl and darts would be too difficult to make.  Mark was playing with a very primitive one which was working surprisingly well and I started coming up with ideas for improvements.  It wouldn't be that difficult to make a simple atlatl and bamboo darts with big nail points and duct tape fletching.  More later....

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Bill Skinner on May 13th, 2012 at 8:49pm
Careful, RM, atlatls are almost as addicting as slings.  And they complement each other so well.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Little on May 13th, 2012 at 10:52pm
atlatl=almost any big game on the planet
slings=almost anything smaller than big game,  maybe some medium but mostly suited for small critters cough cough and self defense/offense against people if the need arises...

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Atlatlista on May 13th, 2012 at 11:21pm
Atlatls are fantastic, and can be very serviceable even as simple as you describe, Rat Man.

Of course, now I've gone and got myself bitten by the bow bug in a bad bad way.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on May 14th, 2012 at 3:22pm
I find atlatl pretty amazing too.  It`s rather easy to make a simple but functional atlatl and darts.  And after practicing slinging atlatling isn`t that hard.

Well, aiming was pretty impossible until I found this video.  I found it last summer and played around a little then (I now realize I used way to thin darts), and when the bug bit me a couple of weeks ago I remembered it and was able to aim pretty easily.  Okay, not bullseye accuracy but I could probably hunt with it in a survival situation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhrJ6kaojwM

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Atlatlista on May 14th, 2012 at 3:36pm

timann wrote on May 14th, 2012 at 3:22pm:
I find atlatl pretty amazing too.  It`s rather easy to make a simple but functional atlatl and darts.  And after practicing slinging atlatling isn`t that hard.

Well, aiming was pretty impossible until I found this video.  I found it last summer and played around a little then (I now realize I used way to thin darts), and when the bug bit me a couple of weeks ago I remembered it and was able to aim pretty easily.  Okay, not bullseye accuracy but I could probably hunt with it in a survival situation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhrJ6kaojwM


That's a great video.  I love the way he spines his darts, I never thought of that, but I wish I had.  It makes so much sense.  I'll have to go spine my favorite darts so I can make new ones more easily.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Morphy on May 19th, 2012 at 8:21pm

wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 11:21pm:
Atlatls are fantastic, and can be very serviceable even as simple as you describe, Rat Man.

Of course, now I've gone and got myself bitten by the bow bug in a bad bad way.


Bwahahah, welcome to the dark side 'Lista!  :D  

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Atlatlista on May 19th, 2012 at 8:57pm

Morphy wrote on May 19th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

wrote on May 13th, 2012 at 11:21pm:
Atlatls are fantastic, and can be very serviceable even as simple as you describe, Rat Man.

Of course, now I've gone and got myself bitten by the bow bug in a bad bad way.


Bwahahah, welcome to the dark side 'Lista!  :D  


It's a longstanding obsession of mine, moreso even than the atlatl, but for the last two months I've been training with a target archery coach, hammering my form into shape, and all that good stuff.  It has helped a ton.  I'm so glad to be moving away from self-taught "instinctive" and into the world of olympic-style target shooting.  It makes me more consistent and more accurate, even with a self bow with no fancy bells and whistles.  Good form is key for any primitive art, and the olympic guys really know what they're doing with form.

As to the spine of the darts thing, I'm so glad you showed me that vid.  I was talking to the professor in charge of my lab about projectile weapons (what else) and we talked about the atlatl a bit, and I pointed out that atlatls aren't all the same, they vary widely in form and in darts especially from around the world.  I brought up the spine issue, and he was intrigued.  Apparently it hasn't been dealt with scientifically before.  So, after I get back from my dig, I'm going to do a dart spine survey of ethnographic darts from around the world to get a sense of the variety and what spine weights are best-suited to what game type, etc.  It should be really interesting, and I'm probably going to use a more accurate variation of his bathroom scale idea to spine them.

Of course that'll have to come after "project Frankenstein."  My profs are going to imbed electrodes in my arms and then have me thrust some spears to measure the musculature involved.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on May 26th, 2012 at 1:10pm
Project Frankenstein.  Cool.  Guess you`ll try those heidenberg spears then :)

As for simple atlatl, I made a new one to have at home, a little prettier, still surprisingly effective.  Gave it a tiny taste of sand paper and teak oil.  
I have even thaught someone atlatling with this stuff, the new atlatl was just half whittled then.  It`s the lower atlatl in the picture.

My student is more or less 18 I think, warned me of his bad throwing arm, but with my gear and instructions he was surprisingly good after perhaps 30 minutes.  I gave him using rights to my hidden-in-the-woods gear.

Even with not-so-straight saplings with duct tape fletching this gear is impessively accurate (guess I could ,with a bit of luck, hit a mammuth from 20 meters, and roe deer from ... say 7 meters), and it hits hard.
I tested my max distance as a demo for my javelin acquaintance, and sendt hazel saplings apprx 28 meters.  When I attempt to throw his older men(ladies) javelin by hand, my lousy throwing arm send it apprx 16 sad meters.
timann
DSC00335.JPG (320 KB | )

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on May 26th, 2012 at 1:16pm
...and upper left...
DSC00336.JPG (336 KB | )

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by Atlatlista on May 26th, 2012 at 8:25pm
Beauty of an atlatl.  I love the way you did the spur, it's very graceful.  I think the sanding and oil gives it a nice, rustic touch - finished but not too finished.

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on May 29th, 2012 at 2:34pm

wrote on May 26th, 2012 at 8:25pm:
Beauty of an atlatl.  I love the way you did the spur, it's very graceful.  I think the sanding and oil gives it a nice, rustic touch - finished but not too finished.

Oh, it was so simple,  I simply whittled away anything that did not seem right, and this rather elagant shape appeared.

I realize now that using hazel sapling darts is not just a walk in the park.  They may be good, but darn, they might be bad too.
I have had them break when power was added, I have had them to stiff so they barely flex, and I have had them soft and whippy.
The last one of those flew seemingly okay for a few meters.  Then it went tip up, made a nice ballistic curve, and slammed tip first to the ground 20 meters away.  Each time.

The few good darts I got which is okay, isn`t even all that straight.  But if thrown right they behave like in the videos on youtube and goes where they are supposed to.
timann

Title: Re: Simple Atlatl
Post by timann on Jun 1st, 2012 at 3:25pm
I made another atlatl video just for fun.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YruQaqNhuNU

Slinging.org Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.