Diodoros, 19.109, describes 1000 Balearic slingers in action against the Sicilian Greeks in 311 BC (or thereabouts). He says that they "wounded many and even killed some", by breaking their armour and their shields; the engagement range, within the Carthaginian camp, was short (and gives an idea of what sort of casualties were inflicted by the sling in battle against heavy infantry: mostly wounds, and the same picture is given by Xenophon in the Anabasis).

This is the passage that says that the Baleares throw big stones-- how big ? One mina in weight, namely ca. 450-500 g. 16+ ounces.

Now from this site, I see people slinging 150-250 g stones. But a stone 500g heavy ? A full pound, half a kilo ?

--is this possible ?

--is this some sort of super heavy ammo for this kind of short range engagement, rather than the usual weight of Balearic sling ammo ?

I'm sure it could be done by professional  and very strong slingers. After all modern olympic hammer throwers throw a hammer 16 pounds in weight, wih the current world record up over 86 m. Possibly they used a long, two-handed sling and a pirouette style? ;)

Seriously though, with such heavy stones air drag becomes negligible so even a 30 m/s launch will give you close to 100 m. range. But as you suggest, it may not have been the ammunition of choice for all occassions.

V. useful point re. weight, drag, and range.

has anyone here tried slinging a stone weighing a pound ? How large would such a stone be ?

Since Palestinian youths nowadays sling whole bricks at Israeli soldiers, 500 g to me does not sound improbable for a normal sling in the hands of a professional at short range.

And there is still the possibility that the Balearics used staff slings. Or does Diodor explicitly mention hand slings?

Since the Balearic stone balls were of limestone and were roughly the size of a tennis ball, the weight doesn't match the size, unless the limestone is very dense. I've found that it was common  to sometimes exaggerate or outright lie on certain facts, either to make your side look good, or the enemy look bad. This could be the case here.
 An example of this is seen in the Aeneid---" the hero, Menzetius, putting aside his spear, with a tightened thong, whirled twice around his head the whirling sling and split his adversaries' forehead with a  molten ball and stretched him over a great stretch of sand."

 In order to sling the lead glande hard enough to have the friction of the air melt it, the man would have needed arm muscles like Godzilla.

Thearos wrote on Feb 15^th, 2011 at 10:43pm:

V. useful point re. weight, drag, and range. has anyone here tried slinging a stone weighing a pound ? How large would such a stone be ?

Granite has a density of 2.63 tonnes per cubic metre so somewhere a whisker larger than a baseball will give you 500 gm.

slingbadger wrote on Feb 16^th, 2011 at 6:40am:

Since the Balearic stone balls were of limestone and were roughly the size of a tennis ball, the weight doesn't match the size, unless the limestone is very dense. I've found that it was common  to sometimes exaggerate or outright lie on certain facts, either to make your side look good, or the enemy look bad. This could be the case here.  An example of this is seen in the Aeneid---" the hero, Menzetius, putting aside his spear, with a tightened thong, whirled twice around his head the whirling sling and split his adversaries' forehead with a  molten ball and stretched him over a great stretch of sand."  In order to sling the lead glande hard enough to have the friction of the air melt it, the man would have needed arm muscles like Godzilla.

The idea that anyone could sling hard enough to melt or even noticeably heat a lead projectile is sheer nonsense. Even bullets fired from guns don't come close. It's obviously pure hyperbole. (I have wondered if it's a translation ambiguity referring to the gland's being made as a casting, but Thearos assures me that the wording does actually mean melted in flight.)

Our famed 600 left handed Benjamite slingers who could, "sling at a hair's breadth and not miss", is also just a figure of speech not a viable accuracy measure, as no distance for the alleged feat is given.

yes the balearics tend to sling heavy rocks - it's one reason they tend to use shortish slings.

If you look at any of the balearic threads - large rocks are common.

If you look at the footage of luis pon livermore re-enacting the goliath thing, he uses approx 1/2 pound rocks.

So any records of balearic using big rocks are both going to be historically accurate and also accurate to the modern day.

It's also why the balearic distance racord is under 200 metres. 'Cos they're heaving boulders :-)

Aussie wrote on Feb 16^th, 2011 at 6:51am:

slingbadger wrote on Feb 16th, 2011 at 6:40am: An example of this is seen in the Aeneid---" the hero, Menzetius, putting aside his spear, with a tightened thong, whirled twice around his head the whirling sling and split his adversaries' forehead with a  molten ball and stretched him over a great stretch of sand."  In order to sling the lead glande hard enough to have the friction of the air melt it, the man would have needed arm muscles like Godzilla. The idea that anyone could sling hard enough to melt or even noticeably heat a lead projectile is sheer nonsense. Even bullets fired from guns don't come close. It's obviously pure hyperbole. (I have wondered if it's a translation ambiguity referring to the gland's being made as a casting, but Thearos assures me that the wording does actually mean melted in flight.)

I think the simpler explanation is that the sling bullet deformed on impact in such a way that it looked like it had melted in flight. I'm sure Virgil knew that lead is soft and would expect a glans to be a little blunted, but may have been baffled by exactly how much it deformed. This may be an example of accidental hollowpoint or wadcutter glandes expanding on impact. Doesn't this bullet look molten? Maybe Menzetius slung with enough force to make a sling bullet look like that, to a lesser degree.

I think Aussie makes a very good point about large stones being specialized mid-range ammo. I can see a trained slinger using 500 g  stones to break an enemies phalanx amongst other things. How accurate are the competitors in Hammer Throw competitions, though?

The Aeneid is an epic poem, and it's full of exaggerations-- that's the point of that kind of poetry. Nonetheless, the ancients were convinced that lead melted in flight-- Aristotle, for instance, mentions it.

The Diodoros is different: it's a narrative historical source, that purports to be factual. It's written perhaps 250 years after the event, but uses an earlier source (perhaps Timaios). But the text, as all ancient historians, was transmitted by hand copies over centuries, so something could be wrong with the text (for instance, it could have read "half a mina" rather than "a mina", i.e. stones 250g in weight); Diodoros could have misunderstood his source; his source could have gotten it wrong. But here's the passage-- which makes it sound like Baleares *usually slung very heavy

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/19F*.html

109 But when Hamilcar saw that his men were being overpowered and that the Greeks in constantly increasing numbers were making their way into the camp, he brought up his slingers, who came from the Baliaric Islands and numbered at least a thousand. 2 By hurling a shower of great stones, they wounded many and even killed not a few of those who were attacking, and they shattered the defensive armour of most of them. For these men, who are accustomed to sling stones weighing a mina,19 contribute a great deal toward victory in battle, since from childhood they practise constantly with the sling. 3 In this way they drove the Greeks from the camp and defeated them.

Thearos,
use experimental archaeology: try to sling such a projectile against a bronze sheet placed at different distances  ;)

I can't think of a better method to verify what Diodoro wrote  :)
Greetings,
Mauro.

No you go first: you go slinging with a hunk of stone bigger than your fist and weighing half a kilo, and with a balearic split pouch, and balearic style (lots of rotations behind your body), then release this at a metal plate without killing any bystander.

vmm-vmm-vmmm-vmmm-vmmm-vmmm-vmmm-oops- AARGH

;D
I could do this, because I sling at the beach, against the sea; unfortunately, I don't think the bronze sheet will float ehehehehehehe  :D
(and I think I'd follow the stone in its flight, 'cause I'm not a good slinger and I'd make some mess, like forgetting to release the notch, eheheheh)
Greetings,
Mauro.

I could see really big rocks being better for ranges under 100yds as many people including my self have found larger rocks to be more accurate and I would immagine it would pack quite a whallop on a man and/or his sheild.

When I slung lead projectiles at a stone wall,  the bullet deforms on impact, when I picked it up for closer inspection, it was warm to the touch, which might have contributed to the legend of lead heating and melting in flight.

You can easily replicate the experiment without a sling. Take a fishing sinker, bang it with a hammer a couple of times and feel it, it will be warmer than before.

If anyone feels like filming himself slinging a great big honking stone, be my guest.

Rockman wrote on Feb 17^th, 2011 at 2:04pm:

When I slung lead projectiles at a stone wall,  the bullet deforms on impact, when I picked it up for closer inspection, it was warm to the touch, which might have contributed to the legend of lead heating and melting in flight. You can easily replicate the experiment without a sling. Take a fishing sinker, bang it with a hammer a couple of times and feel it, it will be warmer than before.

I was going to write about the same experience I had with warm lead projectile after hitting concrete.Another point would be that balearic slingers were fighting against armoured guys so a 50g (2oz) stone\lead won't do much if it hits armour\helmet\shield.But if they sling stones between 300-450g,a helmet won't save the guys head.I rarely sling such heavy stones,but I observed that when the rock hits the ground it sounds like someone would hit the ground with a 3kg sledgehammer.I'm sure that that kinda force puts BIG dents on helmets and armor.Even hitting a raised shield would make the shield smack against the guys head.Now the story doesn't mean that every slingers every stone weigh a mina.Back in the days nothing was standardized.I think they probably used stones in a range like 250-450g.Of course the heaviest stones were recorded.

Approximately the sized of a closed fist.

Based on my research this weight class seems to be the norm for spanish slings

Marc Adkins

Thearos wrote on Feb 15^th, 2011 at 10:43pm:

V. useful point re. weight, drag, and range. has anyone here tried slinging a stone weighing a pound ? How large would such a stone be ?

I have thrown some big rocks, I don't know if they made the full pound or not.  To start with, the sling is made of braided nylon and is around 1 meter long.  The retention cord is extra long, it has a finger loop to keep it in place but it also wraps around my hand so the edge of my hand and not one finger takes the strain.  I use a Greek side arm throw, I do not rotate.  I can get them to go about 80-120 yards, the arc of the release is very important.  I can get them to go in front of me, I am not very accurate, but then, I am not real accurate with anything.   Bill

When I first started slinging, I had no idea of the size of stones most people tended to throw. I generally looked for medium sized rocks (later weighed one and it came out at 200g exactly) but Im sure Ive thrown heavier aswell as I looked to see what weight I could throw a reasonable distance.
My primary throw was underarm at that time, and with that throw I think it is definatly possible to throw heavy rocks, but just would require more strength, so 500g would require alot of strength to keep going well. I doubt I ever threw that heavy myself (had only been slinging for a few months) but I reckon I easily threw a good few 350-400g stones, for about 35-40m (my max throw at that time with any stone was about 60m, so I would assume the heavy weight distance would have improved by now).
I know though by the sheer force applied to your shoulder when throwing one of them (and the sound of impact) that if that hit a person, armour or shield, it isnt surviving. It could easily crush a skull, smash a hole in a shield, heavily dent armour enough to cause serious damage to the wearer. The damage it did to the other rocks it hit was huge aswell.
As said, I dont think this would have been anything standard for any slingers, even though the Balearic slingers where known for throwing heavy ammo, this does sound like an upper limit for the biggest men among them. I could see it though that if you had time to establish a posistion before the battle, you could find a hill and make a pile of heavy rocks as such. I couldnt see people carrying them around however, but they really would be like mini trebuchets or handheld ballistas throwing things like that.

I had also heard about the lead that it can cause wave patterns in it if it hits a hard surface. This can give a molten effect which is likely what convinced the people of the time.

Nemo

A pound is not that heavy.  If you aren't used to it, you'll miss and/or hurt your arm, but I've shattered rocks that are a pound.  Think a pound of hamburger: Two, maybe three burgers for a fat guy = not that much.  A pound of chicken wings is only like seven wings. You just need a big pouch, and a simple cast that you can keep control of.

Background and caveats:  I'm pretty big, but not bodybuilder-size. I cast with only one rotation.  Most of the stones on my favorite beach are at least a little too big, so my slings have big pouches, like as big as my hand.  I'm not putting these into orbit, they go only so far.  Little stones are more accurate.

All in all, if it fits in your pouch and you can throw it without a sling, you can sling it.  If it doesn't fit, make a bigger pouch.

fattybones wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 1:38am:

A pound is not that heavy.  If you aren't used to it, you'll miss and/or hurt your arm, but I've shattered rocks that are a pound.  Think a pound of hamburger: Two, maybe three burgers for a fat guy = not that much.  A pound of chicken wings is only like seven wings. You just need a big pouch, and a simple cast that you can keep control of. Background and caveats:  I'm pretty big, but not bodybuilder-size. I cast with only one rotation.  Most of the stones on my favorite beach are at least a little too big, so my slings have big pouches, like as big as my hand.  I'm not putting these into orbit, they go only so far.  Little stones are more accurate. All in all, if it fits in your pouch and you can throw it without a sling, you can sling it.  If it doesn't fit, make a bigger pouch.

lol I like your attitude !

I've heaved some pretty big rocks from the sling. Never actually thought to make a specially big pouch for the purpose though. Hmm, maybe that's why I bought that heavy duty 8mm paracord I found in the slingbits box the other day. I feel a mega sling coming on !
Guess I could do a 2 finger sliding loop too. Got me thinking now...

c_a, for that size sling you need a wrist loop :)

I find that even my usual split pouch can take most size of ammo, though stones between walnut and grapefruit size fits best(I`m not even kidding).
timann

wow. I sling stones slightly bigger than my thumb, the egg sized stone is my upper limit.

Each slinger will have a comfort zone when it comes to ammo size and the biggest stones I can and have used is well outside mine :).
timann

near my slinging site, i keep a 2-3 pound steel bearing, and to warm up, i spin it around for a bit. it isabout the size of a baseball

timann wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2011 at 9:04am:

c_a, for that size sling you need a wrist loop :) I find that even my usual split pouch can take most size of ammo, though stones between walnut and grapefruit size fits best(I`m not even kidding). timann

I agree! Split pouch slings are incredibly versatile. I've thrown some really small and really large ammo with them, some grapefruit sized, some hazelnut sized...

I've looked at wrist loops - the goliath of modern day slinging (he's really a moderately hairless sasquatch) lobohunter uses one.

I have very strong fingers - I've slung 2-3 lb rocks with a single finger attachment with no probelm.
But I think for big rocks (5lb plus) I'll move up to 2 fingers, which shouldn't effect how I hold and use a sling, but hell I can lift 100kg with a 2 finger grip. So that should do the job :-)  

Bilbo and I had  a fun walk yesterday - I like that byzantine throw, very smooth and certainly suitable for a heavy rock hurl (think that's what you lot call it, starts behind, one overhead rotation and throw - all as a single fluid forward motion. It's one of the new fangled names anyway lol)

I don't like split pouches, so mine will be my usual design the six hole trebuchet pouch. My standard pouches fit 3 on a sheet of a4 with room to spare. I'm thinking 1 pouch template lengthwise down the a4 with elongated attachment tabs. Using the thick red leather.
Basically a smallish treb pouch. And I think I'll keep the length around 30 inches initially and see how that goes.

Actually the problem is going to be finding some big enough rocks to throw.
Might have to take a walk along the railway line.  

Thearos in hurling big rocks most of the joint stress is placed on your elbows - it's why most of the olympic throwers use straight arm elbow friendly techniques (shot aside).
I use a tricep press in the gym to condition my elbows. Use it on 50 kg (lightest weight I use) with sets of 20 reps done as fast as I can while still being controlled.
Definitely makes a difference.  Particularly since I've moved into that age range where joint and muscular injuries take for ever to heal, the trick is to avoid getting injured in the first place :-)  
Have to sort of a set of fishing scales out as well so I can weigh the rocks first :-)
Fortunately I'm exactly the right build for a human trebuchet, short wide and thick strong bones.

Bugger it I'm going to make it now :-)

For those of you who have not met C_A, his arms are the size of your legs. He is a Tolkien dwarf built to human height. He can walk through brick walls without needing such effete contrivances as a door. He could win a shoving match with a bulldozer. Dont try to replicate what he does without great care. In fact, just use a trebuchet.

I would say it's plausible to say they threw stones that weighed 1lb + in weight, merely because I've thrown heavier ammo before. I'm not going to say my throw went very far at all, because it didn't. But i did manage to get it whirling around my head and out of the sling.

Pictured is the ammo i am referring to, a 2lb steel slug i found in my garage.

---

Wow-- don't let that thing go when warming up...

Does Curious-aardvark wrestle ?

That's only 2lb?  It looks heavier.  Your sling might be smaller than I thought though.

I was thinking, these guys lobbing the 1 lb rocks were iron age soldiers, they were probably stronger than most of us.  Also, I'd bet they knew a max size for a good sling stone and used it.  My guess is that after 1lb your range starts to drop off.

I've noticed that larger rocks are easier to aim, because they move slower.  I use fairly big rocks, Maybe 1/2 lb, because those are what's around at my spot. If the rock is smaller than an egg, I have trouble.

Unless someone beats me to it, I'll try to get photos or video of me slinging different size rocks next time I'm at the beach.

fattybones wrote on Apr 30^th, 2011 at 3:54pm:

That's only 2lb?  It looks heavier.  Your sling might be smaller than I thought though. I was thinking, these guys lobbing the 1 lb rocks were iron age soldiers, they were probably stronger than most of us.  Also, I'd bet they knew a max size for a good sling stone and used it.  My guess is that after 1lb your range starts to drop off. I've noticed that larger rocks are easier to aim, because they move slower.  I use fairly big rocks, Maybe 1/2 lb, because those are what's around at my spot. If the rock is smaller than an egg, I have trouble. Unless someone beats me to it, I'll try to get photos or video of me slinging different size rocks next time I'm at the beach.

You'd be wrong in assuming the sling is small, it is a 4 strand round braid from non-gutted 550 cord, and it is about 38 inches folded. The projectile itself is a slug made of what I'm assuming is stainless steel, and it is 2 inches wide and 3 inches long.

---

Quote:

For those of you who have not met C_A, his arms are the size of your legs. He is a Tolkien dwarf built to human height. He can walk through brick walls without needing such effete contrivances as a door. He could win a shoving match with a bulldozer. Dont try to replicate what he does without great care. In fact, just use a trebuchet.

lmao - I tend towards a squashed troll description myself. And no i don't wrestle - stopped all that kind of thing when I was a wee sprog as people just kept getting hurt and I don't like hurting people who haven't pissed me off :-)

But david does have a point, I do a lot of specific training to keep my joints strong, if you are planning on slinging heavy rocks - start small and work your way up gradually. The kind of stress a sling loaded with a heavy weight puts on your joints is not to be lightly dismissed.
Lobohunter - I believe has slung a 5lb sledge hammer head, maybe 7lb can't remember exactly.
Lobo is a six and a half foot tall professional blacksmith with a penchannt for extreme long distance mountain hikes. He's not built like average people and I'm not either (just a foot shorter than lobo lol)

Anyway I've made the artillery version of my standard 'infantry' sling.

To put this into perspective the small white pouch will comfortably hold a tennis or baseball and I've used such pouches for slinging rocks up to about 2 lb for bilbo. Because if it's not big and doesn't land about 3 feet in front of him - he never finds the bloody things :-)
And even then it's touch and go lol

I've kept the big sling pretty short, as this is initially about how heavy a stone I can sling, rather than how far I can sling it.
It's almost bang on 20 inches - which is about the length of a balearic target sling. But the pouch is large enough to take some pretty hefty ammo.
It uses a shaped 2 finger leather sliding loop and 8mm paracord rated to 250kg. Should do the job.

Now I just need to find some bigarsed rocks to throw and sort out something to use to weigh them :-)

I'm thinking the byzantine style as it seems quite well suited to hurling big rocks, not alot of elbow work and great use of bodyweight, waist and forward momentum. Plus you initially start by 'pulling' the sling upwards which is always easier for moving large weights.  Should suit heftier ammo. We'll see  ;)

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Thats a cute sling, c_a ;)

yep - works well too.

I'll try and remember to take the camera and some sort of weighing system with me tomorrow.
But we had fun tonight.

Didn't sling anything under about 1.5 lb. And the pouch can balance some pretty big and awkward shaped rocks. And because they were big and didn't go very far, due in part to bouncing off and sometimes through trees - bilbo actually found most of them !
He was having a great time. And for those who don't know just how excited bilbo gets when he sees a sling.
watch this :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Hu9HaEvgk

One thing about hurling 2-3 lb rocks hard into a woodland - when they hit dead birch trees they pretty much just keep going :-)

Going to have to weigh the biggets rock I slung (I know where it landed and even if he'd been able to get a grip on it (which he couldn't) bilbo wouldn't have been able to lift it). I'm pretty sure it was over 5lb, but one of the problems with habitually lifting heavy weights is you kind of lose the knack of gauging smaller weights.

I can definitely feel the strain as well.  No damage but I know I've been slinging.

Might even make up some longer cords for the pouch as it's a bit too short for a confortable fig 8 - one of the advantages of the loop attachment system, one pouch can be fitted with as many lengths of cord as you like and fairly easily switched.

Actually one other reason bilbo had fun today, he caught a baby rabbit this morning.

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Curious Aardvark wrote on May 2^nd, 2011 at 3:01pm:

yep - works well too. I'll try and remember to take the camera and some sort of weighing system with me tomorrow. But we had fun tonight. Didn't sling anything under about 1.5 lb. And the pouch can balance some pretty big and awkward shaped rocks. And because they were big and didn't go very far, due in part to bouncing off and sometimes through trees - bilbo actually found most of them ! He was having a great time. And for those who don't know just how excited bilbo gets when he sees a sling. watch this :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Hu9HaEvgk One thing about hurling 2-3 lb rocks hard into a woodland - when they hit dead birch trees they pretty much just keep going :-) Going to have to weigh the biggets rock I slung (I know where it landed and even if he'd been able to get a grip on it (which he couldn't) bilbo wouldn't have been able to lift it). I'm pretty sure it was over 5lb, but one of the problems with habitually lifting heavy weights is you kind of lose the knack of gauging smaller weights. I can definitely feel the strain as well.  No damage but I know I've been slinging. Might even make up some longer cords for the pouch as it's a bit too short for a confortable fig 8 - one of the advantages of the loop attachment system, one pouch can be fitted with as many lengths of cord as you like and fairly easily switched. Actually one other reason bilbo had fun today, he caught a baby rabbit this morning.

::)

paracordslinger wrote on May 2^nd, 2011 at 8:42pm:

Curious Aardvark wrote on May 2nd, 2011 at 3:01pm: Actually one other reason bilbo had fun today, he caught a baby rabbit this morning. ::)

Oh come on. Meat is absolutely necessary in the canine diet, and shows up frequently in the human diet. Rabbits are not endangered, in any danger of becoming so, nor do they have any need for a particular hunting season due to breeding rate. They are a perfect food animal, and moreover they aren't horribly treated the way most major food animals of the grocery store variety are.

Quote:

Oh come on. Meat is absolutely necessary in the canine diet, and shows up frequently in the human diet. Rabbits are not endangered, in any danger of becoming so, nor do they have any need for a particular hunting season due to breeding rate. They are a perfect food animal, and moreover they aren't horribly treated the way most major food animals of the grocery store variety are.

lol nobody said anything, calm down - we eat a fair bit of rabbit. I bbq'd a whole baby rabbit the other week - last week we had bunny onna stick :-)

They are a serious pest round here so we eat as many as we can :-)

Wayfarer wrote on Apr 30^th, 2011 at 4:10pm:

it is a 4 strand round braid from non-gutted 550 cord, and it is about 38 inches folded. The projectile itself is a slug made of what I'm assuming is stainless steel, and it is 2 inches wide and 3 inches long.

Ok, there we go.  I assumed it was rope, which would have made the slug and pouch huge.  2'' * 3" makes more sense.  I thought you had like a ten pound slug in a pouch like 6" wide.  So "smaller" referred to the pouch. And that means the pouch really thick too, say, 4mm or so. I daresay your sling could function as a melee weapon, given it's rugged construction. Also, nice finger loop.

Curious Aardvark wrote on May 2^nd, 2011 at 3:01pm:

Might even make up some longer cords for the pouch as it's a bit too short for a confortable fig 8 - one of the advantages of the loop attachment system, one pouch can be fitted with as many lengths of cord as you like and fairly easily switched.

Firing a 5lb rock in figure 8 must be something.  I always like to keep boulders away from my head, myself.  Also, cool pouch, it's elegant in it's simplicity, and looks fast to put together.

Right :-)
Took camera, bodged up weighing sling and old fishing scales with me.

The big rock was a tad over 5.5 lbs.
The shape wasn't really conjucent to anything fancy, ie: didn't want to risk any sideways forces on the rock while it was near my head, so just used a basic underarm throw.

I don't think you'd seriosuly throw anything much heavier with a sling. A denser more compact shape would really help. But as far as human bone, sinew and joint strain goes - I'd say 5-6 lb would be the sensible limit for anyone not capable of qualifying for the world's strongest man competition (no I'm not even close on anything except maybe the viking log lift).

That said if you were attacking a fort and some bugger inside was lobbing 5 lb rocks at you, we're talking serious damage. You could maybe catch one on a shield but if it hit anything else, you'd be in some serious trouble.
With a better shaped rock and slightly longer sling I reckon I could get 30-50 yards - so you'd seriously only use something this size from an advantage of height.

end of part 1
(lol)

---

On amore sensible weight.
I found  a nice 2 lb rock that fit the pouch quite snugly.

This was a good weight for fig 8, byzantine etc and would be fairly comfortable with a significantly longer sling.
Bit of practice, I reckon 100 yards plus should be doable - and more importantly repeatable.
Would be a serious rock to hurl at a line of advancing soldeirs as well.
And again nothing much short of a solid shield deflection is going to save you from taking damage.  

Now I would like to point out that this IS NOT a challenge !

I don't want people to start thinking 'I can sling a bigger rock than him'. You might be able to - but then again you might just seriosuly damage a joint in the process.

By all means have a play - but be sensible about it. Start with a weight you use regularly and gradually increase until it feels awkward. And then stick at that weight till it's comfortable and gradually work your way up over a long period of time.

Please don't go find a 5 lb rock and try and sling it as hard as you can - I don't want to be responsible for  a wave of one armed slingers :-)


Quote:

Also, cool pouch, it's elegant in it's simplicity, and looks fast to put together.

Yep they are. Very versatile and despite the cupped shape they release rocks as well as they hold them.

Got any more practical projects for me thearos ?  :)

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How did you knot that pouch ?

Curious, I hope that pouch material is strong. A couple of years back I used some similar-looking suede and it failed, launching a 3 pound exercise ball backward. Ripped the tabs off one end. Pretty much identical pouch design.

it's pretty heavy duty leather, not going to break :-)

I 'knot' the pouches by quite simply doubling over a length of cord, tying that into a basic knot to form a loop at the end - don't make it too small. I then melt the free end of the cord back into the knot.  
The loop is then passed through the holes in the pouch and the cord is then passed through the loop and pulled tight. IF you work the sides of the loop round the tabs so it's not pulling directly upwards, it looks better and is stronger.
You need to punch the holes in the pouch tabs far enough down so that the loop can grip the sides.
This holds the pouch more centrally and is about as strong an attachment as you can get.

It's much quicker and easier to do than it is to describe.


I've been thinking a bit about slinging heavy objects and olympic sports.

Slinging a heavy object with just the one arm is daft. It would make much more sense to use a larger two handed sling. Wrist loop on the retention cord and a solid toggle or handle on the release cord.
Using a style similiar to mrboss or a hammer throw would let you use much larger weights and sling them much further - albeit with reduced accuracy.

Whether or not this was ever done in battle - no idea, but it makes more sense for the hammer to have originated as a sling missile rather than the far more complicated weight with attached handle that could be thrown back at you the same way you threw it at someone else.
5lb would still be a good weight to sling with such a device - but given that it's done mostly with straight arms and anchored by your whole body weight - I reckon you could sling 10lb plus quite easily.

It would be interesting to make a heavy duty staff sling and see which is more effective. That or a two handed sling.
Any indications of two handed slings that you've come across thearos ?
I'm thinking that if there are ancient depictions of hammer thowers, maybe they were not hammers but large slings.
Just a thought.  

The two-handed "hammer throw" sling do at least sound like an good idea(scary, from bystanders wiew, though ;))
I have had the same thought myself, but I have never done any attempts.


Bilbo is really cool(dogs harvesting their own food like that is not always politically correct, or so I have heard :D)

lol he didn't eat the rabbit just caught it and carried it around (dead).

Bilbo doesn't like raw meat much.

Phoenix would have eaten it - but we didn't let her just in case of any parasites.

i dont care that he killed a rabbit, i just thunk it is funny that there are enough of them around for bilbo to catch. we have six dogs that run around our house, so the only thing that is safe is squirrels. :D

yeah rabbits are almost - but not quite - getting back to serious nuisance numbers.

The ones we eat are shot on land belonging to friends. One has horses and horses and rabbit holes are a bad combination and the other has a plant nursery - nuff said :-)

In your rambles, have you tried hitting a rabbit with a sling?  That is one of the things I plan to try this fall.  And to not get off topic, do you think a 5 pound rock will work?  Bill

And if you succeed you'll have a instant ground meat... :)