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Message started by curious_aardvark on Mar 30th, 2008 at 11:00am

Title: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by curious_aardvark on Mar 30th, 2008 at 11:00am
For slingfest uk on june 29th I figure I'm going to need at least several hundred near-identical and reasonably aerodynamic missiles just for the target shooting. So I'm going to have to make them myself :-)
Hence the need for a giant pill roller.

So I've been to my local hardware store and bought some plastic pipe. They didn't stock anyting as large in diameter as a golf ball. I ended up with white (so I can see where I've marked it - the black looked sharper but was less practical) 40mm diameter drainage pipe.
2 metres for £1.48. Cheap enough I think you'll agree :-)
I figure I can make a seven or eight lane roller and still have the piece I need to make the sausages.
40mm cement balls should be a good size and weight for target shooting. Slightly smaller but heavier than a golfball.

I've worked out the design (in my head) also a design for a little gadget to mark the exact centre of a half pipe piece. I've even found the bandsaw blades I'd lost so I can fit a finer blade than the heavy duty thing I use for wood. I've worked out how to remove the sausage from the pipe and transfer the sausage to the roller and hold the two halves of the roller exactly over each other while rolling.
I even found some chipboard to use as a base (might not use it - we'll see)

So I just need to build it now. Pictures and progress report as an when I have them :-)  

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - ongoing project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 7th, 2008 at 7:22pm
step one.
Cut your 2 metre 40 mm drainage pipe into 10 15cm sections leaving a 50cm section that will be used as the sausage maker later on.

On reflection I really should have used the bandsaw as my hand cutting with the hacksaw didn't exactly result in straight cuts :-)
cutting_tube1_396x600.jpg (54 KB | )

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - ongoing project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 7th, 2008 at 7:30pm
cut each 15cm section in half lengthways - use a bandsaw if you have one - if not, good luck.  But it really does need to be quite precise.
I certainly couldn't cut all ten sections by hand well enough - but then I didn't have to :-)

Once cut you need to use some rough sand paper - I used 120 grit - to remove all the fuzzy plastic edges.
sections-cut-in-half-and_sanded_337x768.jpg (66 KB | )

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - ongoing project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 7th, 2008 at 7:38pm
Mark each half pipe exactly down the centre with a narrow marker/cd pen.
To do this I made a little jig. Lay a half pipe cutside down on a small piece of thin wood. Super glue two upright bits of wood either side so that the pipe is held firmly between them.
Drill a hole the diameter of your pen exactly between the two uprights (should be at the 20mm mark for 40mm pipe).
Push pen through the hole just enough to mark the pipe when the jig is held over a section of pipe and run it up the lenght of tghe pipe. Marking a line dead centre.
Mark all 20 pieces in this way.
This really works - I was impressed :-)
marking-half-pipe-centre.jpg (150 KB | )

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - ongoing project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 7th, 2008 at 7:50pm
next you need two pieces of wood 40 cm in length. In the spirit of my usual 'just make stuff from crap in your workshop' I used a piece of pallet wood from the big-box-of-odd-bits-of-wood-in-the-corner.
You would probably be better off with wood slightly less wide than the pipe (14cm) but, hey that would have broken the use-crap-lying-around rule.

Use a long thin nail to make your first hole (use the guide line marked in the previous section) and then nail the first section parellel to the end of the plank with a shorter nail. Add a second nail to the first and last section. You can add extra nails to the middle sections - but I didn't bother.

nailing_halves-to-plank_263x600.jpg (37 KB | )

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - ongoing project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 7th, 2008 at 8:02pm
if you can be bothered - and want a better roller. Sand the sections where the edges of pipes meet to sharp edges - power sanding probably required (I didn't, but don't let my low standards influence you).
Then carefully apply strips of marking tape between each section. This binds the sections together and just looks good. Also it narrows the diameter of the pipes slightly - hopefully this will help in rolling the cement sausages.

If you cut the original lengths of pipe as badly as I did - trim them even with the bandsaw. If you did it properly - no trimming needed :-)

Make the second section the same way as the first section.


More next week :-)

two-halves-done_396x600.jpg (62 KB | )

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - ongoing project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 19th, 2008 at 1:36pm
Okay next I cut the wood bases exactly level with the sides of the tube and nailed and glued a couple of wings on the side of one section (curtesy of the big box of bits again, see end of article for pic) - hereby called the BOTTOM :-) Your pill roller is now done. Put the top piece in and make sure it slides up and down freely - and yes it did, I was amazed lol.
trim-add-wings-bp-done.jpg (95 KB | )

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - ongoing project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 19th, 2008 at 1:43pm
Okay next we need a couple of other bits to help us make the BPR work.
First off cut the remaining length of tube to fit the wings.
Then cut a couple of pieces of wood approx 5 cm by 45. Nail and glue them at a right angle lengthwise and add a bottom piece.
This contraption is what you push your cement sausage onto and then transfer it to the roller with.
cut-tube-make-sausage-holder.jpg (117 KB | )

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - ongoing project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 19th, 2008 at 1:53pm
Okay next we need a plunger to help push the cement out of the tube once it's full of cement.
I got a bit carried away and used  apiece of metal tubing and turned a wooden plug. As it turned out this was pretty useless lol. And I ended up using a bit of chopped down star rod I got from the Big box of bits.
So the rule for the plunger is make sure the end diameter is a lot less than the plastic tube. I made my fancy plunger too tight a fit.
plungers.jpg (81 KB | )

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - ongoing project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 19th, 2008 at 1:56pm
Okay so now I've got all the bits - did it work ?
(sorry no pics as I was wearing latex gloves covered in cement the whole time)

Well actually yes. BUT.....
big_40mm_missiles.jpg (56 KB | )

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - ongoing project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 19th, 2008 at 2:02pm
Okay - here's what i did wrong and you don't do :-)

1) 40mm is too big. I'll go back to b&q tomorrow and see if they've got some 30 mm pipe.

2) When you buy your mortar mix, make sure you get a dry premixed mixture and not a bag of wet sand and a seperate bag of cement that had more lumps in it than powder.

The texture and consistency of the sausage mix is pretty crucial. Too dry and it just crumbles, too wet and it makes ovals not rounds.
I'm going to dry the sand out and try making a mixture with just pva and a little water.

bear in mind a pill roller will also work well for clay and quite probably mud as well. It's all down to texture.

All in all the experiment to date has cost me less than £5 (including mortar and big bottle of pva glue). And I now know what I did wrong this time (not as much as I'd have thought lol)  and what to do next time (and so do you :-)
Soon as I've made the smaller version I'll post pics.
And yes I am intending to spray paint the final missiles flourescent colours.

Oh yeah (as promised) here's the most useful item in my workshop (after the bandsaw) the big box
of odd bits :-)

ps. Thanks ethan - he and I know what for lol

bigboxofbits.jpg (51 KB | )

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by Ethan on Apr 19th, 2008 at 2:08pm
Wow. Although I'm sure they sling well, it appears as if you've just cleaned up after some horses...   :P

Are you going to spray-paint them at all?

(I moved this  :) )

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by Thomas on Apr 19th, 2008 at 2:52pm
c.a.

Your results are worth the effort. As I said before, standardizing the ammo removes a major variable. Just use discretion when putting a return address on them.

tom      
   

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 19th, 2008 at 3:59pm
ah well - just been having a brainstorm session with a mate of mine - result is tomorrow I'm off to buy a box of table tennis balls ;-)

Watch this space lol (actually if it works, watch for another topic entirely - called 'the crocodile' lol)

But I am pleased that how I thought it through worked - I don't draw up plans or do proper measuring you see lol
The art of the bodge will not die as long as I'm around ! Drives gunsonwheels spare lmao.  

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by jaxslinger on Apr 19th, 2008 at 6:38pm
I must be slow..I wasn't sure what you were doing.Uniformity?Excellent effort!!

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by Gronk on Apr 19th, 2008 at 8:18pm
nothing like being a complete bodger to drive your friends nuts! hehehehe...

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by aussieslinger on Apr 21st, 2008 at 3:19am
If your target is soft enough so they don't pulverize on impact you should get several shots from each one before they're all lost. Spray them fluoro pink so they stand out more in the grass. If you buy several dozen, you may get them for only a few cents each. I have tried this and the only thing I found annoying was cutting the holes, but I didn't have any really good tools. Perhaps you could burn them through with a soldering iron?

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 21st, 2008 at 6:41am
i'm guessing you're talking about the pingpong balls ?
box of 15 from pound land. and no I have absolutely no intention of slinging a ping pong ball - filled or otherwise :-)
that's not what they are for ;-)
lol

project crocodile proceeds !

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by aussieslinger on Apr 22nd, 2008 at 2:50am
If you are not going to fill the ping pong balls with concrete what are you using them for? Don't know what your objection to them is. Filled with concrete they fly beautifully.

You could merely cut them almost in half, leaving a little piece to act as a hinge, which would reduce the cost as they could be re-used.

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 22nd, 2008 at 6:16am
lol project crocodile is much more ingenious than that :-)

You'll have to wait and see ;-)

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by David Morningstar on May 25th, 2008 at 6:39pm
C_A, I may be onto a reason for the relative lack of success. If I understand this correctly, you lay a sausage of cement across the lower half channels and then squish down with the upper half and roll. The sausage is of the same diameter as the rolling channels, i.e. the same as the final sphere diameter.

The volume of a cylinder 40mm diameter and 40mm length is 50265 cubic mm

The volume of a sphere 40mm diameter is 33510 cubic mm

So you are trying to roll too much cement, it can never form a sphere.

If you keep the 40mm rolling channels and use a 30mm sausage you will be rolling 28274 cubic mm of cement which is pretty close. There will be slightly more material than that since these calculations do not take account of the wall thickness between each rolling channel.

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by curious_aardvark on May 26th, 2008 at 7:17am
that doesn't work, not enough contact between the top half and the cement to roll the sausage - but if you just reduce the size of the channels it would work quite well. the method was used for centuries by apothocaries and is currently used by carp fishermen to make their own boilies. It's sound in principle just use smaller tubing :-)
edit: read it again and I see what you're getting at. Unfortunately I don't have any 30mm tubing and my initial comment is probably still a consideration.

Anyway project crocodile is going to get back into production soon - and I reckon that'll sort out my ammo problem quite handily :-)
Got to clear a whole mountain of actual work and then I can get back to playing again :-)

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by kuggur slingdog on May 26th, 2008 at 9:38am
Is "project crocodile" going to be documented with pics and everything, like the giant pill roller, or is it so secret and mysterious because you´re planning to patent this contraption?

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by curious_aardvark on May 26th, 2008 at 10:17am
it's so secret - if I told you I'd have to kill you !

lol nah, I just don't want to post anything before I know it works :-)
Plus I haven't worked out all the little details quite yet. With the pill roller I knew exactly what i was doing and how to do it, so that went pretty quick.
So yep if it works it'll be documented and posted.

I can't envisage any major problems, but then you never really know till you try these things.
If it does work it'll let me mass produce ping pong ball sized cement balls, with pretty good precision and much speed. It's a dead simple idea just don't know if it'll work :-)

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by JTK on Jun 11th, 2008 at 11:50pm
right now im tired and grumpy

Why dont you tells us what the h**l is project crocidile is?!?!

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by BrydonBoy1 on Jun 12th, 2008 at 1:40am
how far and big are the targets one has to hit on the sling fest?

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by Gronk on Jun 12th, 2008 at 2:40am

Curious Aardvark wrote on May 26th, 2008 at 10:17am:
I can't envisage any major problems, but then you never really know till you try these things.
If it does work it'll let me mass produce ping pong ball sized cement balls, with pretty good precision and much speed. It's a dead simple idea just don't know if it'll work :-)



(scratches head for a second and grins)

Sounds like I was thinking the same thing you were, bud.
The only problem I see is the mud viscosity making things difficult to press.

Remember leverage. :)

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by curious_aardvark on Jun 12th, 2008 at 6:43am
thought of that - you drill holes in one side of the jaws 'teeth'. How many and how large I'll determine with experiment. I figure 3 or 4 6-8 mm holes ought to do it. You have to balance releasing the pressure with actually getting the mould evenly filled.
A sharp knock should knock the strands back into the bucket (or whatever your cement is in) and another knock should loosen the balls sufficiently to tip them onto a drying surface.

Yeah like everything with cement the consistency is fairly important.  

The trickiest bit so far was making the jig to mark the exact centre of half a ping pong ball :-)

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 16th, 2009 at 9:34am
bumpity bump bump - for the newbies ;-)

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by David Morningstar on Apr 16th, 2009 at 10:31am
So you have two flat wooden surfaces hinged to press together, they have matching hemispherical pits carved into each face, you put dollops of cement into the lower hemispheres, press down the upper half and you have several spheres of cement to turn out onto a drying shelf of eggcrate foam.... right?

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by curious_aardvark on Apr 16th, 2009 at 12:08pm
no not even close - I presume you're talking about the crocodile.
It's way simpler than that :-)

Project Crocodile
You take double walled pin pong ball halves (cut one in half and press smaller half inside larger - it works) These are the teeth.
Attach say six to a piece of wood and repeat. Two jaws.
Attach each jaw to a piece of wood and then fix the two arms together so that the jaws open and close like a pair of scissors.
Also make sure you align the jaws so that the ping pong ball halves meet exactly.

Then all you need is a bucket of cement and a sheet of plastic.
Scoop up cement and close jaws to mould ping pong ball size cement balls. Tap jaws to loosen balls and turn out onto plastic sheet to dry.
Repeat till you run out of cement.

Now obviously there are a number of prctical considerations.
Compression. At least one set of of teeth will need to have holes drilled in to allow compression of the cement into speheres.
Also it might be necessary to spray the teeth with wd40 prior to the bite.

Minor things and easily sorted.
Can't see any reason why it won't work. Just haven't got round to putting it together yet :-)
Got lots of teeth lol
Even got a jig for marking the exact centre of a half ping pong ball for the nail in point for attaching to the jaws.
Just not built it yet :-)  

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by David Morningstar on Apr 16th, 2009 at 2:18pm
Well get on with it then!  ::)

How heavy is the final product?

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by castanon93 on Apr 16th, 2009 at 3:21pm
i think i get it, nice idea :)

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by xxkid123 on Apr 16th, 2009 at 4:17pm
i still like my paper ammo better  ;)

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by curious_aardvark on Jul 9th, 2011 at 3:10pm
bump for anyone who's joined since 2009 :-)

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by jlasud on Jul 10th, 2011 at 4:18pm
Nice tutorial,that was here for so long,and i haven't even seen it.I'm planning to do a similar tool but it would roll bipointed clay ammo instead of cement balls.Have you succeded with the "pill roller"?

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by Masiakasaurus on Jul 10th, 2011 at 4:44pm
I have some cement that I'm going to make projectiles from soon, but I think I going to use a melon baller to scoop out the spheres. I think it would be perfect for sling ammo production until the croc jaw is perfected. I also have an idea for a glans extruder with an irising nozzle to make biconicals, but no time to make it.

[edit]Do you think this would make a good starting point for project crocodile? http://www.amazon.com/Fox-Run-Meatballer-1-5/dp/B001UFWAG6[/edit]

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by Morphy on Jul 12th, 2011 at 2:37pm

Masiakasaurus wrote on Jul 10th, 2011 at 4:44pm:
I have some cement that I'm going to make projectiles from soon, but I think I going to use a melon baller to scoop out the spheres. I think it would be perfect for sling ammo production until the croc jaw is perfected. I also have an idea for a glans extruder with an irising nozzle to make biconicals, but no time to make it.

[edit]Do you think this would make a good starting point for project crocodile? http://www.amazon.com/Fox-Run-Meatballer-1-5/dp/B001UFWAG6[/edit]


Ice cream scoop is my preferred method. Melon baller should work good as well.

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by curious_aardvark on Aug 28th, 2012 at 12:25pm
just a quick addition.

I've changed my initial conclusion that 40mm is too big. Actually for target shooting the extra size and weight are perfect.

The BPR is still under one of my workbenches.

The ammo is probably exactly what we need for the hill fort project, so the BPR might be getting it's second usage fairly soon. I'm going to take a couple of the concrete balls with me tonight and see how they fly.

I figure next time use a slightly stiffer cement mix with some pva added in and see how we go.    

Morphy:  sorry it's take me so long to answer you lol



That's basically the same thing as project crocodile - I was just thinking make 6 at a time rather than one :-)

The other thing you could use would be a portioner (no I had no idea what that was either) or an Icecream scoop as I call it :-)


They'd be quick and easy to use, but you'd need a pretty stiff cement to get anything resembling a sphere.

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by jlasud on Dec 7th, 2012 at 4:25pm
SO ,did anyone use a meatballer for clay,or cement? does it work?a bit oil and mass production?

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by Morphy on Dec 8th, 2012 at 6:20pm

Curious Aardvark wrote on Aug 28th, 2012 at 12:25pm:
just a quick addition.

I've changed my initial conclusion that 40mm is too big. Actually for target shooting the extra size and weight are perfect.

The BPR is still under one of my workbenches.

The ammo is probably exactly what we need for the hill fort project, so the BPR might be getting it's second usage fairly soon. I'm going to take a couple of the concrete balls with me tonight and see how they fly.

I figure next time use a slightly stiffer cement mix with some pva added in and see how we go.    

Morphy:  sorry it's take me so long to answer you lol



That's basically the same thing as project crocodile - I was just thinking make 6 at a time rather than one :-)

The other thing you could use would be a portioner (no I had no idea what that was either) or an Icecream scoop as I call it :-)


They'd be quick and easy to use, but you'd need a pretty stiff cement to get anything resembling a sphere.


Very nice...  Not sure how I missed this post when you posted in Aug.  I've spent the last couple days trying to work out a simple way of making something like this meat baller.  Apparently, someone already beat me to it.  This will give a slinger exact weight ammo every time.  

And I am currently working on experimenting with cement additives to get a stronger product and better consistency for making sling ammo.

Good find C_A.  :D

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by squirrelslinger on Dec 8th, 2012 at 10:44pm
Hmm............ i will just stick with my stones ;D......
and maybe some paper wads. also you could just buy about 200 eggs ;)

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by Pikåru on Feb 3rd, 2013 at 1:13am

jlasud wrote on Dec 7th, 2012 at 4:25pm:
SO ,did anyone use a meatballer for clay,or cement? does it work?a bit oil and mass production?


I've tried icecream scoops, melon ballers, meatball makers and they were all more trouble than they were worth when making shot out of clay. I'd like to play around with it a little more but I am still faster at making them by hand. I have materials for a pill rolling tool but it's still a couple projects behind in the project que.

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by jlasud on Feb 3rd, 2013 at 8:28am
With the method i've presented with a photo also, the "cake cutter" i'm doing 50 uniform cement shots in 2 hours.

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by Pikåru on Feb 3rd, 2013 at 2:18pm
I've been using jlasud's cookie cutter method when cutting my clay into uniformally weighted pucks before forming by hand into biconical kinl fired stones.  
ClayStones1_001.jpg (55 KB | )

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by squirrelslinger on Feb 3rd, 2013 at 3:12pm
NICE ammo! Pikaru, I think you are the master of Ammo....
where do you get your clay? mine is not nearly that smooth.

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by Pikåru on Feb 3rd, 2013 at 3:29pm
I get my clay from the pottery shop. $12 for 25lbs.

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by squirrelslinger on Feb 3rd, 2013 at 5:42pm
Expensive... I dig it out of ground.

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by Pikåru on Feb 3rd, 2013 at 5:58pm
Sometimes a person's time is more valuable than a couple of grenbacks. The time it would take to process the clay to consistant enough quality for the kiln, I've spent way more than twelve bucks.

The quality of the shot I get with commercial clay is superb and worth every dime.

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by squirrelslinger on Feb 4th, 2013 at 5:39pm
I agree. but I have lotsa free time in spring, and my stuff is not nearly kiln quality, I only get rid of big stuff (1/8th inch or more) and sand....
Besides, I do not even have a kiln!!!

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by Dan on Feb 6th, 2013 at 2:15pm
Sling Economics 101:

Time, Quality, Cost...

Making good sling ammo is always a balance between these three things. As cost goes up, quality goes up and time goes down. If you want better quality, you either need more time or more cost. If you want low cost, well, your quality of ammunition will reflect the amount of time you put into it.


:)

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by squirrelslinger on Feb 7th, 2013 at 5:12pm

Dan wrote on Feb 6th, 2013 at 2:15pm:
Sling Economics 101:

Time, Quality, Cost...

Making good sling ammo is always a balance between these three things. As cost goes up, quality goes up and time goes down. If you want better quality, you either need more time or more cost. If you want low cost, well, your quality of ammunition will reflect the amount of time you put into it.


:)

you are forgetting one thing- quantity!
-Squirrel

Title: Re: Making giant pill roller - finished project
Post by Curious Aardvark on Apr 27th, 2020 at 9:37am
so 12 years and a bunch of new toys later I can knock these out:

paint6_800x273_001.jpg (43 KB | 2 )

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