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Message started by Matthias on Jul 9th, 2004 at 5:44pm

Title: From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Jul 9th, 2004 at 5:44pm
This one is a little different as well... At first I was a little worried that it would come out with too much of a "70's crocheted short-shorts" feel, but who am I kidding - I LIKE short shorts...

The end product is pretty nice. The slings have a nice feel and should hold up pretty well. The design is "clean" and efficient, while looking authentically primitive at the same time. It is interesting to note that knitting is a relatively recent technology. No Romans for instance, and many of what we think of as great textile cultures (including south/central america) had no knowledge of knitting. Most accounts have it introduced to europe by the moors. The colonists (and especially the missionaries) then spread it throughout the world. Surprising when you think of the simplicity compared to a lot of the techniques that were in place pre-contact.

The tarred twine makes a nice sling, but doesn't photograph at all well.

-Matthias


***CAUTION - knitting terminology to follow***
The language of knitting is nice in it's ability to precisely provide instructions to make very complicated objects, but it isn't much help if you don't understand. If you want to try your hand at on of these, any beginner level book should give you the tools...



The top one was a prototype where I just knitted the pocket. I realised after finishing the other that it would be easy to cleanly attach cords so it's a working sling now too! The lower is knit one piece (a one-string sling!)



Here you can see the shaping in the pouch and the "I-cord" release/retention lines. The cords are 3 knit-stitch I-cord. It turns out that 2 stitches would have worked very nicely as an alternative (and taken 30% less time). One of the nicer things about knitting is that smoothly tapering the cords is a piece of cake.

The pouch is worked in stockinette, with 4 stitches carried parallel to the edge and a curved/tapered insert for the shaping.



The pocket has a "chain" edge to stabilise the knit and give a clean selvedge. The edge is achieved by slipping the first stitch of every row purlwise and knitting the last stitch. Sorry for the terrible picture... You can also see that the shaping adds a nice amount of concavity to the pouch.



Here is the "prototype" with the braided cords. All you need to do to join the cords with no knot is to loop each string through a stitch (one of three). No knots! and it locks the stitches at the same time. In this sling, I've picked up two stitches with one of the strings so I have two strings doubled to give me four strands for the round spiral braid.



Another shot showing the I-cord a little better.


Instructions for the one-piece model:

No 18 seine twine on 4mm double-pointed needles.
k1= knit 1, p1 = purl 1, s1p = slip 1 stitch purlwise
m1 = make 1, I've used invisible increases created by working a yarn over, and then knitting the YO as a twisted stitch the subsequent row.
k2tog = knit 2 together, k3tog = knit three together, center stitch on top

For both increases and decreases, I've used symmetric stitches for the left and right side as appropriate. For the increases this means working the twists so that the loop slants to the outside. The decreases are k2tog and SSK or slip 1, k1, psso.

    *Retention cord*

  • Cast on three stitches.
  • For the I-cord, k3 then slide the work to the other end of the DP, bring the working strand behind and repeat until you have about 4 inches.
  • Transfer the second row of stitches to a second needle and unwork the cast on edge.
  • Move the 3 tail end stitches to the first needle and work the stiches in pairs as k2tog to join. weave the cast on tail in to the Icord as you progress.
  • Continue working in I-cord until you have the desired length.

    *Pouch*

  • 1  slip 1 purlwise, m1, k1, m1, k1
  • 2  s1p, p3, k1
  • 3  s1p, k1, m1, k1, m1, k2
  • 4  s1p, p5, k1 (rest of even rows to follow same pattern unless noted)
  • 5  s1p, k2, m1, k1 ,m1, k3
  • 7  s1p, k3, m1, k1 ,m1, k4
  • 9  s1p, k10
  • 10  s1p, p3, m1, p3 ,m1, p3, k1
  • 11  s1p, k12
  • 13  s1p, k3, m1, k5 ,m1, k4
  • 15  s1p, k14
  • 17  s1p, k14
  • 19  s1p, k14
  • 21  s1p, k14
  • 23  s1p, k3, k2tog, k3 ,k2tog, k4
  • 25  s1p, k12
  • 26  s1p, p3, p2tog, p1 ,p2tog, p3, k1
  • 27  s1p, k10
  • 29  s1p, k2, k2tog, k1 ,k2tog, k3
  • 31  s1p, k1, k2tog, k1 ,k2tog, k2
  • 33  s1p,  k2tog, k1, k2tog, k1
  • 35  slip 1 purlwise, k3tog, k1

    *Release cord*

  • continue in I-cord.


This was written from memory, so may not be quite right... should be close though.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Hobb on Jul 9th, 2004 at 6:00pm
That's a smooth, smooth design:o  I've never seen such seamless transition from cord to pouch, like it's all one piece of rope with a flattened center.  Knitting, huh?  Darn it, another hobby I've got to take up!  

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Jul 9th, 2004 at 6:08pm
;D That's because it IS one piece of rope. If you had the patience to use smaller twine/needles I think you could make a killer knit sling. I'd like to try using a double sided, two colour patterned knit on 2.5mm... so many projects. (and knitting is easy, and a fantastic survival skill to boot. I can put together a 4" thick grass blanket/cape/mat in a surprisingly short amount of time)

Thanks,

Matthias

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Johnny on Jul 9th, 2004 at 9:35pm
Those are real nice looking slings!
Do they stretch when slinging a rock?
Thanks
Johnny

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by english on Jul 10th, 2004 at 3:27am
Matthias, you are the cordage master.  That looks really great.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by krippp on Jul 10th, 2004 at 7:16am
Wow, now I must make one of those! Guess it means one more book to my many-books-to-purchase list. Good thing that my birthday is getting near, so that I'll maybe get some extra financial support.  ;D

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by mgreenfield on Jul 10th, 2004 at 2:16pm
My sweetie is a great knitter.  Sox, scarves, etc.  But FINALLY, this is something useful for her to do, ....if only I can convince her to see it that way.  ;D     mgreenfield

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Jul 10th, 2004 at 3:25pm
Glad you guys like this one. I think the all knit one is in the running for my new favorite...


wrote on Jul 10th, 2004 at 2:16pm:
My sweetie is a great knitter.  Sox, scarves, etc.  But FINALLY, this is something useful for her to do, ....if only I can convince her to see it that way.  ;D     mgreenfield


I bet she would... most hobby knitters (I learned for work) are pretty fanatical! Pretty quick project too... On the other hand, how many bonus points could you score if you showed an interest in her hobbies ;D? Get her to teach you the four stitches you need and the two of you can spend an evening curled up on the couch knitting. The unfortunate thing about my circumstance is that MY sweetie doesn't knit, so I get flak for "not paying attention". The supposed benefits of the above suggestion are thus purely speculative...

I *strongly* recommend buying her a new set of needles or two though if you want to stay in the good books. More so if you are crazy enough to spec tarred twine (I _think_ the stains will come out) Needles are dirt cheap though, so it seems like a fair trade. Another thing to mention is that the gauge and twine diameter/needle size ratio I've used is pretty tight to give a nice solid structure. It is definitely a "workout" to manhandle the stitches. the increase/decreases in particular are tough. A crochet hook might be the best bet for manipulating some of the tougher spots.

Johnny - a true knit (as opposed to a jersey knit like a t-shirt) is usually stretchy across the fabric. Lengthwise once you've set the stitches it is pretty stiff. The stretch in the all-knit sling is "possibly" a tiny bit more than one of the braided slings of the same material - maybe an inch total with as much force as I can reasonably put in... Nylon is pretty stretchy stuff to start with and I'd say that 90% of this stretch is in the yarn.

Matthias

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by SnapCut on Jul 19th, 2004 at 9:58am
[glb]WOW![/glb]  :o That looks great.  I knit also.  I'm going to put that on my next projects to do list.   ;D

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Jul 19th, 2004 at 4:29pm
Hey no one commented on my Goban backdrop! I thought for sure that some of you warrior types would have more than a passing acquaintance with Go...

http://senseis.xmp.net/

Matthias

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by english on Jul 20th, 2004 at 2:10am
Weird looking game.  I remember reading about it in a guide to Japan or something, but I can't remember anything about it.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Yurek on Jul 20th, 2004 at 4:46am
Matthias,

Your masterpieces completely shaded the GO board, so I overlooked that before :)

Great strategical game! Years ago I played GO sometimes. My problem was to meet a partner. I also tried to play with my wife, but I was winning almost every time, while she hates to lose at any play... you know ;) So I was forced to play with a computer.

Moustly I used the TurboGo shareware program. Look at http://www.turbogo.com/

One could use WinHonte too (http://www.jellyfish-go.com/win_honte.exe) or other programs (http://www.reiss.demon.co.uk/webgo/compgo.htm)

Jurek

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Hobb on Jul 20th, 2004 at 10:47am
I could never get my head wrapped around GO.  I can see how the pieces in chess attack, cordon off sections of the board, trap other pieces, etc., but I can't seem to see an overall picture on a GO board 'til it's too late.  Kudos to anyone who can play this game well!

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Oct 27th, 2004 at 9:36pm
Ok, I admit that I'm bumping this thread... With all the recent posts about dropping rocks out of sling pockets and skinny split cradles, as well as the huge number of new slingers around lately I figure this deserves another go around.

Matthias

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Thori on Oct 28th, 2004 at 4:24pm
NICE pattern, Matthias.  I knit some, and crochet too, and actually made my first sling by knitting a square very much like a gauge swatch, then attaching pieces of antenna cord (some odd but rather strong material ordered online) to the four corners.  It worked, and my friends in the "swordfighting with wooden dowels" club I belong to liked it.  They like the braided ones better, though, as it turns out.  :)

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by WildAtHeart on Nov 3rd, 2004 at 8:48pm
Hey SnapCut,

Make me one of THOSE knits slings and send it to me to write an article on  ;) ;) ;)

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matt_C on Nov 4th, 2004 at 5:37am
I think I am going to ask (beg) the woman to swish me one of those up (heck, she can make a braided sling in under half an hour).

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Unsapien on Feb 27th, 2006 at 3:15pm

That's very impressive, I someone who's a knitting fanatic!
I wonder if I can get her to teach me....
-unsapien
:-/

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Fritz_the_Cat on Feb 28th, 2006 at 9:47pm
I wish my mother was still around to teach me how to knit . Great sling . I've got some tarred twine too . How much twine did you use ? 8)

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Tint on Feb 28th, 2006 at 11:02pm
Nice sling Matthias.  How long did it take to make?

My grandma knitted a sling for me once but it wasn't very strong.

My brother teaches GO at a board-game-club.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Mar 1st, 2006 at 12:27am

wrote on Feb 28th, 2006 at 9:47pm:
How much twine did you use ? 8)


Not sure... I'd guess about the same amount that would go into an 8 strand braid, +some extra for the pouch. Maybe 30m? Not too much anyways. You can figure it out pretty quickly once you start knitting - just measure out a couple of feet and see how long of a cord you get.

Timewise, it's been a while but I'd guess it probably took me 2-3 hours as a spectacularily slow (but practiced, if that makes any sense) knitter. The pouch is has some tricky bits with the shaping, but any knitter would be more than happy to show ou those bits. There is lots of knitting info on the web (I'm self taught).

I can almost guarantee that any knitter that someone asks about knitting will be more than happy to talk about it for hours and show you the three stitches required. This is a bit of a tough project to convince someone else to take on though. Knitting heavy twines isn't as nice as fluffy wool!

Knitting is a good survival skill too. Grass mats, blankets and such go together fast once you know the tricks.

I've mentioned it before but this was my all time favourite sling...

Matthias

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Willeke on Mar 1st, 2006 at 2:55pm
Then why haven't you made a replacement?
Every time I see this thread I am tempted to get my knitting needles.
But there are so many things more I want and need to do......

Willeke

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Mar 2nd, 2006 at 5:58pm
It's on the needles! Really!  ::)

I'll post some pics of the new sling. My main problem is that I dislike doing the same thing twice, and I *really* want one identical to the first :P

Bad form though. I'll finish it off, time the knitting and double-check the intructions. Watch this space...

Matthias

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Mar 3rd, 2006 at 12:06am
Ok, I'm half done, and it took me a bit longer than I thought - close to two hours. I probably spent a good chunk of that figuring out how to join the fingerloop cleanly. Duh - I wrote it down right there in the instructions... my projects would progress faster if I didn't have to reinvent the wheel at every turn :P

So far so good. The pouch instructions are accurate!

Thanks Willeke!

Matthias

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Fritz_the_Cat on Mar 3rd, 2006 at 5:48pm
You mentioned 4mm knitting needles. How sharp are the points ? 0.5 spherical radius perhaps ? How long would you recommend . I'm afraid I'll have to make my own knitting needles . Good thing I enjoy this kind of work eh ? Would wood suffice or should I steal my dogs large bone ? :)

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Mar 3rd, 2006 at 7:15pm

wrote on Mar 3rd, 2006 at 5:48pm:
You mentioned 4mm knitting needles. How sharp are the points ? 0.5 spherical radius perhaps ? How long would you recommend . I'm afraid I'll have to make my own knitting needles . Good thing I enjoy this kind of work eh ? Would wood suffice or should I steal my dogs large bone ? :)


Wood/bamboo should be fine (nicer, even) I'd try to see if you could find something to slicken them up a bit. Maybe wax them after sanding smooth? The tarred twine is a bit of a hassle with the residual stickiness. Bone would be pretty cool!

You need the points small enough to work the stitches. My needles taper for the last 16mm down to about a 2mm "ball". Too sharp and  you need to be a little careful not to split the yarn with the points.

To knit the I-cord, you need (two) double-ended needles, since you slide the work to the other end rather than working back and forth. Mine are standard 9" aluminum ones. It is a tradeoff - longer might be nicer to work with since you can tuck one end under your arm, but on the other hand, with all the sliding the short needles are nice. If I was making custom needles just for this project I'd probably make them 12" (or however long my material was, more likely ;) )

Hey I'm just about done the replacement. It looks like the total time is going to be closer to 5 hours. 1 hour or so for each cord, 2 (didn't seem like that long) for the pouch, and an extra hour for loops and fancy knotwork. I answered some email and had the usual interruptions during that time so there you go. One thing I can say that knitting has over braiding is that it easy to put down and pick up where you left off. Nice and tidy, with only one (ball of) string to keep track of! You can very easily break a project like this into a number of short sessions.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Willeke on Mar 4th, 2006 at 6:08am
You can easily make knitting needles if the wood fits in a pencil sharpener.
First sharpen the dowel like you would a pencil, then blunt the point on a piece of sandpaper, it should still be a point, but like a bullet rather than like a pencil.
Use the sandpaper to lightly sand you needle if it is rough and then rub it with oil. THe best oiling you can give it is using unwashed wool. If your first knitting project is selfspon wool you will get the best knittingneedles you have ever seen.
If you can not get the raw lanoline (in the sheeps wool) you can use the bottled kind. Lacking that try any oil that will dry out with out getting sticky and is pleasant for your skin.

Making your own short needles is a good idea, but it is posible to buy short needles, they are used in Irish knitting, to make the cables and alike. Needlecraft stores often sell them, in different thicknesses even, but mostly as set of 2 different sizes.

Willeke

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by bigkahuna on Mar 4th, 2006 at 7:14am
I am pretty broad minded and enjoy making various items of mayhem and survival, but I am not making "knitting needles". :P

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Mar 4th, 2006 at 11:47am
If anyone asks just says they are poison darts - no excuses ;)

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Fritz_the_Cat on Mar 5th, 2006 at 3:21pm
If you are built like Arnold Swartznegger whos going to ask if you are knitting ? Just flex the muscles in one of your knitting fingers .  >:(

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Willeke on Mar 7th, 2006 at 5:22pm
I just could not resist anymore, had to train my knitting muscles ;D

Now I have made the pouch, (and see where I could have done better,) and wonder, which side to use as the outside when finished....

BTW, if you use 2 stitches for the I-cord there is no need for short needles. Just move the last stitch back on the left needle after you have made it and insert the left needle in the stitch left on the right needle, less bothersome, you can use full length needles if wanted and less likely to make mistakes.

Willeke

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Mar 7th, 2006 at 7:03pm
Oh man, Willeke's going to be done before me... I only have 20cm and a knot left. :P

With the pocket from the above post, the edges curl under when seen from the knit side of the stockinette. I put the rock on this side ("smooth" side) with the purl facing out, and the curled edges act like extensions of the I-cord.

Matthias

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Willeke on Mar 8th, 2006 at 1:54pm
Done  :D

Now I do have time to cook dinner, I had to finish before that. This was the first knitted sling, but I see where I could have done better, so after dinner I might start the next  ::)

So the purl side out it is.

Matthias, did you realise that to knit and to net are often used to describe the same thing, making a net?
In Dutch we use the word 'breien' for both.

Willeke

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Mar 8th, 2006 at 5:20pm
Ahah! but I have photographic evidence!



What are you going to change Willeke? I made this pouch 2 rows longer, but stuck with the three stitch I-cord, trying to make a close replica of the original. Look forward to seeing photos of the "evolved" version (and the other one too :))

Matthias

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Fritz_the_Cat on Mar 8th, 2006 at 6:10pm
I'm going to get ready and start doing pushups on my fingertips . ;D I'm making knitting needles out of bamboo chopsticks . 8)

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by bigkahuna on Mar 8th, 2006 at 8:14pm
I can't believe this is actually making me interested in knitting! :P

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Fritz_the_Cat on Mar 8th, 2006 at 9:15pm
Its interesting and the slings look cool . I could use a bit more info . Maybe some pictures of someones hand doing the 1, and a 2 , and a 3 and on and on. The sequence would be cool . :D

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Willeke on Mar 9th, 2006 at 1:15pm
Fritz,
This is a site I found real helpfull. For me it is the english abbriviations that where hard, but this site will also help you with reminding you what to do, or even teach you a bit.
http://knitting.about.com/library/blabbreviations.htm

Matthias,
I do mostly just change things I had done wrong. Like I did not make the stitches the right way and got the little holes. So now I do a string over needle in the row before and turn the loop the right way to make a nice extra stitch.
The only real change is that I have a central strip of 2 stitches to go with my 2 stitch I-cord.
And the first knitted sling was of netting cotton, this one is corse string, maybe hemp, and a little thicker.
I will make photos when finished, but not before.

Willeke.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Fritz_the_Cat on Mar 28th, 2006 at 10:10am
I'm currently in the Psych ward at the VA hospitabe in Battlecreek. The volunteer workers have agreed to show me how to knit and I'm going to show this thread to them so they will know what techniques I'm looking to acquire . I need to keep this thread near the top so its easy to find so please help me keep this thread active . Are ther any new discovered techniques besides the ones in this thread you would like to share with me ? 8) I'll be starting in a couple weeks........

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Taiki on Mar 28th, 2006 at 2:52pm
yeah a couple of daysago i bought a book on knitting just the basics and a few 'simple' patterns they Really menat basic  :-/ they just tell you how to start and do 2 stiches and they don't really tell it in a way i get the idea  :-/ and then they use stiches Never explainde in the patterns  :o needless to say i didn't leanr much :( and i really wanted one of those slings..and a cloak ;D

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Fritz_the_Cat on Mar 28th, 2006 at 4:54pm
I found out that I can print up the instructions from this thread at the VA library. Some elderly ladies will show me how to knit after their vacation. Since I can't access any stones I guess the sling will be OK. What do you think ? 8)

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by CanDo on Mar 28th, 2006 at 6:10pm
sounds like  plan. have fun! if there aren't any rocks, try to mold it around a raquetball, as that's a pretty good size for slinging rocks.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Mar 28th, 2006 at 6:22pm

wrote on Mar 28th, 2006 at 2:52pm:
yeah a couple of daysago i bought a book on knitting just the basics and a few 'simple' patterns they Really menat basic  :-/ they just tell you how to start and do 2 stiches and they don't really tell it in a way i get the idea  :-/ and then they use stiches Never explainde in the patterns  :o needless to say i didn't leanr much :( and i really wanted one of those slings..and a cloak ;D


Stick with it guys! I'm very happy that Willeke managed to goad me into making another! :)

Cloak eh? I'm still working up enough steam to tackle a sweater (rugged manly sweater). Knitting is pretty much just a combination of the two stitches the book was showing you (knit and purl, almost certainly). The "fancy" stitches are just variations, like going through two loops at once - if you can figure out how to do a simple square of stockinette you can handle the rest.

Best thing to do at first is to make a swatch about 12-15 stitches wide using only knit stitches. The fabric that you end up with has funny horizontal ridges, but if you work a dozen or so rows, your hands will figure out what they are doing a little better. Next try knitting the alternate rows using purl stitches (yarn is held in front of the work instead of behind). The swatch will be smooth, with the front showing the little "v" pattern typical of knitting.

Once you have _that_ mastered, the only other tricks you need for this pattern are increases and decreases. Decreases are easy - instead of working one stitch at a time, you just poke your needle through two or more, you just need to be a little more careful as there is less room to maneuver. There are lots of ways to do the increases, but some of them leave little holes. These are the most complicated stitches in this pattern. The type that I used in my sling are twisted yarn-overs, which should be in the books or webpages. Normally, a yarn over (easiest stitch of all!) leaves a big hole, that is often used in lacy patterns. If you put the needle in from the "wrong" direction though, the hole twists into a little figure-eight shape, and the fabric is nice and solid. I chose this stich over the other options as the nylon I was using doesn't have much give.

Matthias




There a few little tricks that knitters use to make complicated shapes look nicer. Although I've written the pattern using the same stitches on the left and right sides, when I made the sling I mirrored the decreases. When you get to the point of practicing increasing and decreasing in your swatch (everyone is practicing first right? ;)) you'll notice that increases "slant" the knitting one way. I wanted the pocket to be symmetric, with the column on both sides slanting out, then in, so on one side I used a k2tog variant where you slip one stitch over onto the other needle, then knit the other loop before passing the slipped stich back. The pattern will still work if you don't do this, however...

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Willeke on Mar 29th, 2006 at 1:18am
I found this site very usefull, it has the abreviations but also explaines with pictures.

http://knitting.about.com/library/blabbreviations.htm

Taiki, I am happy to do a knit session in Dutch, but will not have time till the slingmeet.

Willeke

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Taiki on Mar 29th, 2006 at 2:48am
thats ok i'll just keep a lookout and if i'm none the wiser you could still help me afterwards  ;D or perhaps the time hass come to go visit the grandparents again ::) Lol

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Fritz the Cat on Mar 29th, 2006 at 2:34pm
Thanks, I'm printing out the instuctions from this thread and a picture . I thinkit'll be fun !  8)

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by fi3l2 on Apr 6th, 2006 at 11:34pm
**bump**

hey matthias, im actually goin to start to try knitting tonight. Do you have a good site on Continental knitting? ALso any good references on the different stitches? I find that the knitting.about.com site doesnt cover casting on really well.. just a really quick guide...

Any tips?

Thanks

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Apr 7th, 2006 at 2:17am
I actually don't *really* cast on for this sling. I use sort of a provisional cast on (with only three stitches, you can get away with just about anything) and then frog a row or two back when I splice the finger loop into the retention cord (how's _that_ for sling/knitting gobbledygook? :)) When I do need a real cast one edge, I've been using a wierd looped jobby - it is the same edge you use in a knitting machine, and seems stretchy enough the way I do it. My knitting skills are probably not great for imitating though. I picked it up for a very specific purpose, and I know that the way I hold the needles/manipulate the yarn are non-standard and almost certainly slower than the "proper" methods... I've never met another person who holds a pencil the way I do either...

Matthias

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Apr 7th, 2006 at 2:23am
Oooo... look at that!

http://www.wonderful-things.com/newknit1a.htm

I use the "single cast on" method (apparently). I was a lace-knitter in a previous life, so maybe there was method to my madness after all. Great memory I have.



Matthias

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Taiki on Apr 7th, 2006 at 7:49am
gobbledergook ? :o i only know one word..Bladvak..means picaxe so i'm not about to use it in case they think its a threat...(iReally gotta lay of the harry potter its getting so bad i can quote it :-[ )

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by winkleried on Dec 14th, 2006 at 3:06pm
Bumping thread, Looks good might have to try this style out as well when I get graduated :)

Marc Adkins

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by David N. on Dec 17th, 2006 at 5:32pm
I've been looking around at various slings and thats one of the best ones so far. nice work. Too bad i dont knit but i have a freind that does.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Tint on Dec 19th, 2006 at 6:16am
David,

Welcome to the forum!

shiny?  Are you a browncoat? (your avatar didn't show on my computer)

If you are, we've done the impossible and that make us mighty.

Tint


Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Dale on Dec 19th, 2006 at 10:01am
?  :-?  ?

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Tint on Dec 19th, 2006 at 8:38pm
Dale,

Browncoats are a bunch of people who loved something a little too much to let it go and fought a war that most considered already lost.  Didn't mean to keep everyone in the dark. :P

http://www.donetheimpossible.com/

Shiny is a word we like to use 8-).

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Dale on Dec 20th, 2006 at 1:15am
No problem, Tint!  I ran into this, right after I'd tried (again) to make some sense of the  ... discussion? conversation? jumble of nonsense words? ... over in "New Canadian".  Guess I'm just feeling my age; all these things that obviously mean something to somebody, but I have NO clue.

But I am not dead yet, therefore I can learn new things! So did the Firefly fans REALLY talk the "suits" into continuing the show, after they had cancelled it?  I have just read enough to get a bare idea of the story (and the story about the story), but I don't know any details.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Mordechaj on Dec 20th, 2006 at 3:09am
firefly is one of the best SF series i've seen (THE best beeing battlestar galactica).
firefly is wierd because you never know what to expect next, not (only) in terms of story-line, but more like: one show is hilarious, the one after is depressing, then follow the 2 grimm episodes, and than again one light hearted, but it did not seem -out-of-place- to me, it kinda functions ok.
only negative side i can remember is it beeing too short.

battlestar galactica (the new series) is my favourite, because it's more serious than any other, it does not favour any side, there is no good guys and bad guys, there are just warring sides, each with it's own best and worst.

while firefly is an SF western ( :P ), battlestar has more epic touch to it, with a strong focus on individuals and their lives. AND it has more episodes than firefly, and it does not seem they will stop any time soon (and by the third season it has still not shown any signs of over-exploatation)

serenity is not as good as firefly series to mee, but it's ok, considering the productional uncertanty...




p.s. it's early in the morning, that's why i'm so long-winded.  :-X

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Willeke on Feb 25th, 2007 at 7:02am
Bring to the top, (again,) because someone asked about a knitted sling.

Willeke

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Mordechaj on Feb 25th, 2007 at 7:44am
and i hoped someone will ocntinue the SF series line  :P

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Masiaka on Apr 2nd, 2009 at 9:57pm
How well do the knit slings wear-in? Do they last long, or is there a problem with age and use? P.S. Fox RUINED Firefly >:(. *Down with the Alliance!*

Sorry for reviving a dead post, but I had to know.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by xxkid123 on Apr 3rd, 2009 at 4:37pm
what i would give for those... :(

ah well, my mom knows knitting, so when i get the hang of it, i can search up instructions on (fanfare) GOOGLE :P

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by melliphile on Apr 3rd, 2009 at 7:20pm
I played Go Mo Ku with my mother when I was a kid.  That's kind of a simplified version of Go.  Don't remember how to play, tho.  Kind of like Othello, no?

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by evoli on Aug 7th, 2010 at 3:03pm
Hi all!  I just joined the site, and this knitted sling is the first sling I've ever made.  It's 70 inches end to end.   The end result is really neat, though I wish it weren't such a brilliant shade of white (No 18 white seine twine).  Did you guys dye your string?  If so, how did you do it?

Thanks for the instructions.  The curvature of the pouch looks really nice.  The knitted sling also didn't stretch the way I worried it would.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 7th, 2010 at 9:37pm
I only just discovered this thread and the AWESOME-LOOKING KNITTED SLING even though it's six years old.

I learned how to do basic knitting a few years ago, enough to make some basic winter scarves for myself and family. I haven't done anything seriously complex yet, and have never even so much as done an increase, decrease, or yarn-over. These are things I must learn, in order to progress -- and evidently to do this knitted sling project.

I have to admit that I am not able to comprehend how to make this sling based on the instructions; but that's not because of deficiency in the instructions. I sure wish I could have a sit-down with Matthias and get shown step-by-step how to do it.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Rat Man on Aug 8th, 2010 at 12:31am
Yes, pj, those instructions are made for someone who already knows how to knit.  That's not me.  It is a beautiful sling.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 8th, 2010 at 3:00am
Well, what frustrates me is that I LOVE the idea of a knitted sling,
AND I DO know how to knit --
just not ENOUGH to be able to follow along with those instructions.

I'd better try to find time to get back to the handful of knitting reference books and pamphlets that I have (including, yes, Knitting and Crocheting for Dummies!) and finally learn those other "tools" for knitting.

Like Matthias, I would like to eventually make myself a big, heavy-duty wool sailor's sweater. :)

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 8th, 2010 at 5:18am
Evoli, how long have you been knitting? How advanced are you at it?

I'm imagining that you're pretty experienced, because the concepts described in the instructions are not for the beginner. ...

Now that I've seen that sling, I covet one! But I need to learn some more techniques first.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by chinatime on Aug 9th, 2010 at 12:37pm
well this is just perfect for me. i just finished a teddybear and was ready for a new knitting project before i started on a sweater.lol i find its best to start on sweaters in the summer ;) !

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by evoli on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:26pm
To peacefuljeffrey: I have knitting experience.  I learned knitting 2 months ago and knitted a scarf.  I didn't know how to work increases (the "yarn overs" in the instructions) until I made this sling.

The instructions looked tricky so I used a lot of "life lines" to periodically "back up" my work on the pouch.
(A life line is a piece of string threaded through a row of knitting, so you can safely unravel up to that row if you want to fix mistake.  The life line stops the unraveling.)

The best part about knitting the sling is that it's so tiny compared to the scarf.  The pouch has just 36 rows, and only the first half had any "increases" to widen the pouch.  So I really only had to slug through the first 18 rows before I was home free!  Anyone who can knit a rectangle can probably figure out the sling.

chinatime: wow, I'm far from knitting something as complicated as a teddy bear.  I do want to knit the Nessie, the Loch Ness Monster, someday.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:49pm
Peacefuljeffrey, here are a few links that helped me out with this.
The cloth shown on the increases and decreases pages is basically several pouches connected together.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 10th, 2010 at 2:57am
JEEBUS CRIPES, am I the only sap who hasn't made one of these things?!
I friggin' learned in 2005!  >:(

When I browsed the instructions, I got LOST.
It doesn't help that i'm viewing on my iPhone because I don't have home Internet access of
late. (Video tutorials have to be on YouTube or else they're usually Flash-based and won't play on the phone.)

You have no idea how frustrating it is to have such a desire for a cool sling like that and know that you probably are a long way from being able to make it, even though you know how to do a large part of what's needed to make it. >:(

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 10th, 2010 at 3:02am
And I have NO &@%*# CLUE what Matthias was getting at when he talked about doing special stuff to the edges, and ESPECIALLY NO &@%*# CLUE about how he fused the cord into making a finger loop!

And what makes a trigger knot?!

DAMMIT, thinking about this has me in a really foul mood. I &@%*# HATE not understanding s***!  

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 10th, 2010 at 3:23am

Masiakasaurus wrote on Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:49pm:
Peacefuljeffrey, here are a few links that helped me out with this.


>:(
Why is she so damned stingy with the photographs?! She doesn't clearly explain HOW one would begin to knit in the other direction from that cast on; all she does is say THAT you could!

ARRRRGHHHH!!  >:(

There is nothing worse than &@%*# "instructions" that get you HALF WAY to an understanding!!

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 10th, 2010 at 4:36am
The pouch is worked in stockinette, with 4 stitches carried parallel to the edge and a curved/tapered insert for the shaping.
  
The pocket has a "chain" edge to stabilise the knit and give a clean selvedge. The edge is achieved by slipping the first stitch of every row purlwise and knitting the last stitch. Sorry for the terrible picture... You can also see that the shaping adds a nice amount of concavity to the pouch.



Can anyone explain that to me?

And why is it that the pouch instructions SKIP CERTAIN NUMBERED ROWS?!

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 10th, 2010 at 11:14pm

peacefuljeffrey wrote on Aug 10th, 2010 at 4:36am:
The pouch is worked in stockinette, with 4 stitches carried parallel to the edge and a curved/tapered insert for the shaping.
  
The pocket has a "chain" edge to stabilise the knit and give a clean selvedge. The edge is achieved by slipping the first stitch of every row purlwise and knitting the last stitch. Sorry for the terrible picture... You can also see that the shaping adds a nice amount of concavity to the pouch.



Can anyone explain that to me?

And why is it that the pouch instructions SKIP CERTAIN NUMBERED ROWS?!

The Provisional Cast On Video here is kind of confusing, but used with the other link maybe you'll understand better.

The provisional cast on makes a row of unfinished stitches at the beginning of a work instead of an edge. To make a finger loop:
  • Knit 3-stitches in the round until you have a tube long enough to wrap around your finger.
  • Pull the "waste yarn" out of your knitting to reveal the unfinished stitches from your first row of knitting.
  • Carefully pull your knitting off of the needles without letting it unravel.
  • Fold the knit tube in half and put it back on the needle alternating 1 loop from the last row you knit and 1 unfinished loop on the first row.
  • Knit the first two stitches together, knit the third and fourth stitches together, etc. for one row.
  • Knit 3-stitches in the round to make the retention cord.
  • Do not increase, do not decrease, and do not purl.

You don't need to use the provisional cast on, but it makes the fusing together part a lot easier.

To slip a stitch transfer the loop from the left knitting needle to the right knitting needle by putting the right needle through the loop in front of the left needle and slip the loop off of the left needle.

The reason that certain numbered rows are skipped is that every skipped row is done in the same way, so the instructions for the first row can be applied to the rest. This is what you do for every un-numbered row:
  • Slip the first stitch on the row.
  • Purl every remaining stitch until you reach the last stitch.
  • Bring the tail of twine between your knitting needles from the from to the back of your work to switch from purling to knitting.
  • Knit the last stitch of the row.


Does this help?

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 10th, 2010 at 11:23pm
Well, it explains what I didn't know (although I did suspect) about the skipped line numbers.

I still am not sure about the increases and decreases yet, but I will say that after I ranted my frustration, I read over the instructions again a little, and some stuff became more clear to me.  (Not everything yet, though.)

I am in the middle of knitting a scarf for my dad for his 70th birthday coming up in September, so I am not starting to try the sling yet.  When I'm finished, I'll try the sling.  (Oh, sure, I may putter around with it prior to that, if I can find that set of double-pointed needles I remember seeing among my materials a while back.)

Is Matthias no longer an active member?  I sure wish he would post a video of the making of that sling.  :-/

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 11th, 2010 at 12:09am
:'( No, he hasn't been on in a while. I PMed him with questions last year and he never responded, but I eventually figured it out.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 11th, 2010 at 5:52am

Quote:
When you get to the point of practicing increasing and decreasing in your swatch (everyone is practicing first right? ) you'll notice that increases "slant" the knitting one way. I wanted the pocket to be symmetric, with the column on both sides slanting out, then in, so on one side I used a k2tog variant where you slip one stitch over onto the other needle, then knit the other loop before passing the slipped stich back. The pattern will still work if you don't do this, however...



I suspect that this is pretty important to the symmetrical outcome of the pouch ...
But I find it to be about as clear as mud.

Can anyone state this more plainly?

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 11th, 2010 at 10:04am
To do this:
  • slip the first stitch
  • knit the second stitch
  • pull the loop you just made by knitting through the first stitch

It's the same technique as binding off for one stitch, but in the middle of the work. It isn't a necessity, because I didn't do it and my slings work fine.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 11th, 2010 at 1:12pm
What is it a technique for? Increasing? Decreasing?

If one doesn't use IT, what does one substitute?

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 11th, 2010 at 1:30pm

peacefuljeffrey wrote on Aug 11th, 2010 at 1:12pm:
What is it a technique for? Increasing? Decreasing?

If one doesn't use IT, what does one substitute?

It's a way of decreasing. The easy technique for decreasing is to stick your right needle through the first two loops on your left needle and knit one stitch through them both. When using seine twine I think Matthias's method is actually easier to do, though.

[edit]Here is a video of the right side decrease (Matthias's method) and a video of the left side decrease (knit 2 together).[/edit]
Both methods of decrease can be used on both sides for a symetrical pouch, but it looks more neat with each method on one side.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 11th, 2010 at 11:32pm

Masiakasaurus wrote on Aug 10th, 2010 at 11:14pm:
[quote author=peacefuljeffrey link=1089409452/60#73 date=1281429407]The provisional cast on makes a row of unfinished stitches at the beginning of a work instead of an edge. To make a finger loop:
  • Knit 3-stitches in the round until you have a tube long enough to wrap around your finger.
  • Pull the "waste yarn" out of your knitting to reveal the unfinished stitches from your first row of knitting.
  • Carefully pull your knitting off of the needles without letting it unravel.
  • Fold the knit tube in half and put it back on the needle alternating 1 loop from the last row you knit and 1 unfinished loop on the first row.
  • Knit the first two stitches together, knit the third and fourth stitches together, etc. for one row.
  • Knit 3-stitches in the round to make the retention cord.
  • Do not increase, do not decrease, and do not purl.

You don't need to use the provisional cast on, but it makes the fusing together part a lot easier.


Does this help?


Now that I look closely at it, not really.   :-[I have no idea what it means to "knit three stitches in the round."

I feel like a *&!^! dullard child.  >:( :-[

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 16th, 2010 at 4:14pm
When you cast on only cast on 3 stitches. Do not turn your work over; when you would normally turn the work over and start purling you should instead slide the knitting to the other end of the needle and keep knitting. This only works on double point needles or circular needles. Knitting a small diameter tube like this is called I-Cord knitting. Before you try this try making a hat to wrap your head around the differences between flat knitting and circular knitting.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 17th, 2010 at 10:46pm

Masiakasaurus wrote on Aug 16th, 2010 at 4:14pm:
When you cast on only cast on 3 stitches. Do not turn your work over; when you would normally turn the work over and start purling you should instead slide the knitting to the other end of the needle and keep knitting. This only works on double point needles or circular needles. Knitting a small diameter tube like this is called I-Cord knitting. Before you try this try making a hat to wrap your head around the differences between flat knitting and circular knitting.


Thank you!  That is a big help! :)

When I was reading earlier about sliding back to the other end of a double-pointed needle, I didn't make the connection that it would result in a tube.  I'm familiar with the idea of that result by using a knitting spool, though.  I just didn't realize that going back and forth across one needle would do the same thing.  But I remember thinking that based on Matthias' pictures, the result looked like what I've done with a knitting spool. ...

Now I have to find the set of double-pointed needles that I know I have somewhere.  I have no idea where, though.  Could be in a dozen places at my house. ...  :-/

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 18th, 2010 at 11:28pm

Masiakasaurus wrote on Aug 11th, 2010 at 1:30pm:

peacefuljeffrey wrote on Aug 11th, 2010 at 1:12pm:
What is it a technique for? Increasing? Decreasing?

If one doesn't use IT, what does one substitute?

It's a way of decreasing. The easy technique for decreasing is to stick your right needle through the first two loops on your left needle and knit one stitch through them both. When using seine twine I think Matthias's method is actually easier to do, though.

[edit]Here is a video of the right side decrease (Matthias's method) and a video of the left side decrease (knit 2 together).[/edit]
Both methods of decrease can be used on both sides for a symetrical pouch, but it looks more neat with each method on one side.


I believe that I now understand what is going on, as far as making the shape of the pouch symmetrical by doing, for example, a decrease at the start of and at the end of a row (or an increase at each end, depending).

Are you also saying that you use one kind of decrease at the start, and a different kind at the end?  If that's what you mean, does that not make it look odd?

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 18th, 2010 at 11:44pm
That is exactly what I'm saying, but by doing one method at the start and one method at the end I make the sling more bilaterally symetrical. When increasing and decreasing the two (or more) sitches in the increase/decrease lean in one direction depending on the technique you use. By using one technique at the beginning of the row and one at the end I make the decreased stitches on both sides lean toward the center of the row and the increased stitches lean away from the center of the row. It is not necessary, though.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Aug 19th, 2010 at 2:18pm
I checked in to look up these instructions for my first replacement sling in quite some time and find it on the front page! First sling is quite the honour evoli. Nylon takes dye quite well - anything from grocery-store RIT to onion peels should work.

Thanks to Masiakasaurus for carrying the thread and posting some great clarifications! I don't have anything really to add, but I did take photos of the new replacement while I was working on it. I only have white bonded twine with me, which I don't like for this sling quite so much as the tar, but it does photograph much better. Pictures worth 1000 etc?

The sling is #18 bonded 3-strand nylon twine, 36" (inseam/outstretched arm-chin) from pouch to release. It is made exactly to pattern with two extra knit rows in the straight section of pouch.




A bunch of suggestions have ben posted for casting on, and they all will work. The truth is that with only three stitches it's pretty irrelevant - completely so if like me you unravel a row or two before joining for the fingerloop. The cast-on that I used was simply looped.



I-cord hollow tube on the needle. As deduced it's the same result as spool knitting, and you could substitute a spool and swap to needles for the pouch if you wanted, so long as it was sized to give you the tightness of cord you want.



The fingerloop. On the needles the I-cord is "unrolled" toward the back side. I placed the two "insides" face-to-face and knitted the stitches in pairs.



The initial taper. The first couple of rows in the pouch are maybe the only thing with this design where I see room for improvement. It's a high wear area, and could use a little more reinforcing, not that my previous slings show any sign of failure. I think maybe the I cord could be flared for the first art of the pouch so that the transition is doubled. This sling was a replacement - next one can be for experimenting.



The increases: the whole "symmetric" discussion comes down to making the stitches look the same on both sides. These increases are twisted yarn-overs, and the direction of increase is decided by which direction the stitches are turned. Masiaka correctly identified that with this gauge and twine I pretty much take the increase and decrease stitches off the needle and manipulate them individually, so it's pretty easy to just flip the stitch the direction you want before continuing. It really doesn't matter much whether they slant in or out, but it does look good with mirror-image stitches.



Decreases. Which way they slant is decided by which stitch is on top. Knit the bottom one first, then work the top one over. The top stitch can be slid over, transferred to a third needle, or even just left hanging with seine twine while it's waiting. There's only a handfull - take your time.



The chain edge. This forms a strong, symmetric edge that curls the right direction. It's a result of slipping the first stitch (needle goes in as if you were going to purl it) and knitting the last stitch of every row.



Release cord diamond knot and tassle. To tie the knot I stretched the last three stitches out 4" or so, giving me three large loops and the tail end of the cord. The tail went through the neighbouring stitch then I added an 8" loose strand through the remaining two to that each knit stitch in the last row had one big loop and one single strand coming from it. Each bundle of three strands was treated as a single cord to tie the knot, being carefull to keep them tidy. The tassle is just the 9 stands (after cutting the loops) unravelled.



Two views of the pouch shaping.




Matthias

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 20th, 2010 at 3:26am
Matthias! Welcome back!  :D
We meet for the first time!

I was sad, here, thinking that by the time I finally got around to discovering your sling design -- which to me is genius, by the way -- and developed a strong desire to knit one, we had already seen the last of you on this forum. You can imagine my great relief that you are still with us!

I'm at a point where I'm practicing the I-cord beginnings of this sling. My
mind has not yet digested the concepts involved in the increasing and directionality of the stitches
in the pouch. Some of your expressions still go over my head, unfortunately; although maybe they'll be more clear to me when I begin to attempt to follow along with the steps.

Brace yourself for more questions!  ;)
But in the meantime, thank you so much for this most worthy and excellent contribution to both slinging and knitting!  :)

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 20th, 2010 at 3:32am
"I think maybe the I cord could be flared for the first art of the pouch so that the transition is doubled."

Would you mind elucidating this point? Thanks!
Not sure what you mean about "flaring" and "doubling."

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Aug 20th, 2010 at 4:06pm

peacefuljeffrey wrote on Aug 20th, 2010 at 3:32am:
"Not sure what you mean about "flaring" and "doubling."


Don't worry about it... I have an idea that you could make the sling a little bit stronger by slowly increasing (flaring) the I-cord from 3 to say 5-10 stitches still working as a tube. Then, to start the pouch, you'd flatten the tube, so that the resulting triangle of fabric is double thick, then pick up the stitches either in pairs or alternately...

The other option would be just to knit the whole pouch as a tube... or various other "advanced" techniques.

If I do find something I like better I'll post instructions, but it will be trickier, and you really can't go wrong with the existing pattern!


Making samples is one of the best ways to learn. You don't need to worry about the time already put into the project, and it's easier to pick up tricks. Knitting can always be undone very simply as well, so don't be afraid to go back and correct of change things you don't like!

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 20th, 2010 at 11:40pm
Ah -- thank you!  That idea makes perfect sense to me now.  Thank you for clarifying what you meant.  :)

By the way, your colorization of the salient stitches in your recent photos is genius and has really helped me attain an understanding of how those increases work.  Thanks again!

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 21st, 2010 at 5:25am
Now I've been home for a while, and I took out some nylon mason's twine to do a cursory attempt at knitting a sling, since I've at least reached the point of being able to create an I-cord finger loop.

So I've been working at starting the pouch, and I have to say that at this point I am hopelessly &@#% frustrated. Nothing about this makes sense to me even though it seemed to earlier when I was reading the new comments and looking at the pictures.

I thought I had done row 1 correctly, then I did row 2, and then row 3 seemed like nothing was where it was supposed to be positioned for what was going to be done to it. For example, it says "s1p, k1, m1," but how do I KNIT 1 when the cord is in FRONT after the s1p?!

I feel like I'm NEVER going to "get" this. I feel once again like a &@#% imbecile. I can't think of the
last time I've wanted so badly to smash something in a rage, as I do right now. I want to make and have a sling like this so bad, I think that's what's making the frustration so damned pointed.  >:(

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 21st, 2010 at 5:55am
I think I've begun to figure out the solutions to some of my sticking points, but I really wish for much more explicit directions and photos of the very beginning of the transition from the I-cord to the first few rows of the pouch, and the way the "yarn overs" that you do are done. As near as I can tell, there is an option of bringing the yarn over the needle in either of two directions, and I have no idea which way! (And am I correct that if you do the first one on a row one way, you do the opposing one the other way?)

Aaaand once again, what's irritating me is knowing that other people have managed to figure this out from your directions as-is, but I can't!  >:(

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 21st, 2010 at 8:42am
Now the only thing I have to beat myself up about is having acted like such a whiner:

I've been up through the night plugging away at this, and I do believe that now I have gotten past the parts that were flustering me, and I have the symmetrical
increases happening.

It was a matter of trial and error, and some dogged tenacity (my poor cat had to hear me yell a few times  :-[ ) but I think I've got it. If I'm right, this is really gonna make my weekend glow! :)
As long as I can do the decreases right, I think I'm all set, because I think I understand how the trigger knot is done.

Thanks for tolerating my questions and storminess.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Aug 21st, 2010 at 1:09pm
Lol... sounds like knitting will be perfect therapy :D

Seriously though - slow and steady! It sounds like you probably are narrowing in on a finished sling, but I'll try to clarify for the record:

1. The chain edge. When you slip the first stitch you don't need to bring the yarn to the front, so that's an easy one - just ignore it. by skipping the "end" stitch, it makes the edge curl under nicely. In regular knitting, when you switch from a knit to a purl, say for textured patterns or ribbing, you just pass the strand from front-to-back between the needle points, which is to say between the last stitch you made and the next one to be worked.

2. Yarn overs. I just make them the "normal way" looping from back to front. In usual practice this makes a large hole, that is often used in lace knitting patterns. I don't bother with the direction because when I do the next row I take the YO off the needle and twist it the way I want. Easier than thinking ahead, and easier on the fingers.

The transition is a bit confusing because you can't see the pattern emerging until a few rows are complete. Try casting on 10 stitches as a fresh project knitting 4-5 rows and then figure out you increases/decreases on that! Try the chain edge as well. MUCH easier to see what is going on, physically easier to knit, and a huge confidence builder.

The only hurdle left is likely to be the k3tog. Those are annoying with nice soft fluffy yarn... I just work them mostly off the needles. First stitch knit, then the third, then the middle one on top.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Aug 21st, 2010 at 1:17pm
Oh, and the 3-or-more strand diamond knot always takes me a while to relearn. I think The Ashley Book of Knots shows a method where you use some twine or tape to secure the three loops back against the main cord, which sounds like a lot of hassle, but it really simplifies things vs freehand.

It's a great knot though: stylish, just the right size and practically guaranteed to never come undone. I've used them as load-carrying stoppers in critical applications with spectra rope, which is just about the slipperiest stuff you'll ever meet.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 21st, 2010 at 7:43pm
Last night I did finally succeed in figuring out the things I didn't comprehend, so I was able to get the pouch started. The big victory was getting the increases to work and be symmetrical. (It was very important to me to keep it symmetrical instead of just accepting an asymmetrical project.)

Now that I'm on the second half, I just did my first row with decreases and I'm proceeding vert slowly and deliberately in effort to make sure I keep the symmetry going.

I have a pretty good knitting instruction booklet that specifies that k2tog slants right, and that while s1, k1, psso slants left, it is that SSK that is the mirror image of k2tog. So, on my first run through my first decrease row, I had done s1, k1, psso, I went and undid that and replaced it with a SSK.

One of the things that has happened to me since I started knitting is that I have acquired the ability to read what is going on in the yarn, and identify correct stitches and incorrect ones, and really see and understand the mechanics of how it's going together. When I was very novice (as opposed to what I am now, which I would call "advanced beginner"  ;)) I could not even "see" the rows. I did not know how to count how many rows had been knitted. If I didn't count from the start, I wouldn't be able to figure it out along the way.

Now that I'm half-done with this sling, I fear that I don't have enough of
this cord left on the spool to finish it.  :-/  So this may end up being a practice piece anyway.

One last question (for now, at least):

Is there a specific reason for the design to have an odd number of total rows?
Would anything change if it were an even number?

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 21st, 2010 at 8:01pm

Quote:
2. Yarn overs. I just make them the "normal way" looping from back to front. In usual practice this makes a large hole, that is often used in lace knitting patterns. I don't bother with the direction because when I do the next row I take the YO off the needle and twist it the way I want. Easier than thinking ahead, and easier on the fingers.


I think I understand how this would be done -- the second-time-around explanation seems to have done it for me -- but I did them on the needles, and that's most of what took me so long to figure out. Next time, I'll try it as you describe and see if I find it easier.

As for the Diamond Knot, I'm an old hand at those, so that doesn't have me spooked. I'll know eventually if it's as easy as I'm expecting it to be, since I've tied a lot of those. Haven't reached that point in this sling, yet.


I also want to mention that the other essential skill that took me a long time to master is being able to UNknit rows (as for the purpose of correcting errors). OMG that had me totally lost for so long, and when I finally "got" it, I was exultant. It's something I'm still thankful for and don't take for granted.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 21st, 2010 at 8:51pm
Out of curiosity, is there any reason that necessitates doing increases in a PURL row?

I found that after my ordeal to learn how to do them correctly on a knit row, and then had to figure out how to make it work on the purl row. Argh.  :-/

So, would it make a difference to do them in one of the knit rows instead? Would there be a downside to that?  

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Aug 21st, 2010 at 11:29pm

Quote:
I also want to mention that the other essential skill that took me a long time to master is being able to UNknit rows (as for the purpose of correcting errors). OMG that had me totally lost for so long, and when I finally "got" it, I was exultant. It's something I'm still thankful for and don't take for granted.

Absolutely... when I learned to knit I was using *very* expensive handspun (by me) yarn and being able to correct mistakes was essential in that samples really had to be perfect. In addition to unknitting the whole thing, dropping a stitch or two and working backward as many as 20 rows without destroying the rest of the piece became an essential skill.


Quote:
Out of curiosity, is there any reason that necessitates doing increases in a PURL row?


Nope. The increase I used is a two row jobby no matter, but the YO would work just fine in the purl rows. I actually suspect that a "make one" in a knit row could be read either way according to preference in most knitting. Lace is the only place where anyone would notice.

A perhaps more common increase is to pick up the bar between stitches without doing the YO as prep. That's morphologically the same thing, but without the extra sack that the YO affords. From that standpoint, following my pattern strictly you *should* put the YO in the purl row that precedes the knit row where the actual increase takes place.

Either way! :) If you are starting to get a feel for the individual stitches instead of just a list of step-by-step instructions you're well on your way to adapting the design as you see fit!

If you run out of twine, just tie in a new section with some slack and then just hide the knot and both tails inside the I-Cord. No biggie. Same if you run out in the pouch, though there I'd try to juggle things so that the join was close to the edge with the knot in the back.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 21st, 2010 at 11:49pm
Prior to starting this sling, I did a small practice section using yarn, on which I did some increases and decreases from my booklet. I learned about that bar increase, but I think you mentioned that it doesn't
provide much slack -- and slack is crucial because the cord I'm using doesn't stretch like yarn.

So, it wouldn't cause any problem
to do the increase that you list on a purl row on a knit row instead?
Was there a reason for putting it on a purl row? I think that I'll change that on future slings I make simply for the sake of making my increases homogenous and all done with the same technique.

I will make sure to start with enough cord in the future, because on a project this small, it seems a shame to have to splice in a new spool.

I'm nearly finished with this sling -- just another foot or so of release cord to go, and I am hoping the last of my spool holds out! Getting down to the wire. ...

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 21st, 2010 at 11:52pm
Matthias, I'm super-curious about your background, now. Didn't you say you learned this stuff for your vocation? Would you mind elaborating?

Oh, also, is there any reason to favor the
pouch being done in an odd number of rows? Does odd or even affect anything?

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 1:57am
I finished my first knitted sling a short time ago. I'm pretty sure it is very faithful to the pattern posted.

It came out looking quite good. I'm vert happy with it, and especially happy about plans to make others, and with different materials.

A few more things about this sling:
- I used a pair of 7mm double-ended needles that came into my possession when my mother, an expert at knitting and crocheting, died in 2001.
- I used bright yellow nylon mason's twine, and had about two feet of it left on
my spool when I finished -- talk about lucky!
- My favorite thing about it is the pouch. I've never had a sling with such a secure, solid, capacious pouch. It's one sling that will be able to do everything from
rocks, to golf balls, to tennis and baseballs. (Of course, I haven't been out to try it yet.)

I think that I'm going to try one with hemp
twine this week, and I'm going to play with the needle
size and gauge to make the pouch a bit less dense with stitches (by using larger needles) while leaving the I-cord gauge the same.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 2:07am
Many thanks to Matthias for his exceptional sling design, and to him and others for their assistance. :)
I could not have done this without the help that has been graciously given.

I believe this is now far and away my favorite sling design.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by timann on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 1:16pm
Peacefuljeffrey, glad you made it, just following this thread has been a nerve-wreacking experience.
Matthias, glad you was able to explain it the way you did, and what an exceptional sling you show in your pictures.

I did not comprehend a word of it, I knitted a couple of rectangles, like 1"x3", as a kid, and that`s it.

Wonder what my mother would make of it, maybe my Christmas wish can be a knitted sling :).
timann

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by evoli on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 5:55pm
Congratulations peacefuljeffrey!  I'm going to try knitting a symmetrical sling (Thanks for the instructions with pictures, Matthias.  I have a hard time reading and explaining knitting instructions, although I can tell when something finally "looks right").

By the way, my first sling (70 inches end to end) went through washer and dryer with a load of my laundry, and to my surprise it shrank a little.  It's now 63 inches end to end, and the stitches look smaller.  I had a short knitted sling sample I compared it to.  The slings are made of No. 18 nylon seine twine.  I didn't know nylon could shrink, but maybe laundromat dryers are just extremely hot.

Title: Re:  From net to knit...
Post by Matthias on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 6:53pm
Pictures! Pictures!

I'm curious about how it looks on bigger needles - must be able to sling cantaloupes :). Now that you've got one you could be cranking out different designs in no time! I really like the knitted cords, but the pouch does adapt really well to braided ones, or even paracord, for a whole lot less labour.

I've always wanted to take it the other direction, with smaller twine, denser stitches. You could use knitting to make a really beautiful patterned pocket with enough patience.


Quote:
  • 3  s1p, k1, m1, k1, m1, k2
  • 4  s1p, p5, k1 (rest of even rows to follow same pattern unless noted)
  • 5  s1p, k2, m1, k1 ,m1, k3
  • 7  s1p, k3, m1, k1 ,m1, k4
  • 9  s1p, k10
  • 10  s1p, p3, m1, p3 ,m1, p3, k1
  • 11  s1p, k12
  • 13  s1p, k3, m1, k5 ,m1, k4


  • Ok, I misunderstood your question... The increase at 10 is moved to the purl (even) row to give a smoother taper to the pouch. It's clearly visible in the close-up: The pattern increases every 2 rows at first, then every 3 for the last two. It seems about right, but sticking to knit rows you could either leave out the fade for a more square-shouldered pouch, or skip 4 rows instead of 3.



    As for even or odd total number of rows, it makes no difference (ok maybe one row longer). Many patterns only give instructions for every other row, with alternate rows being simpler/all purl etc. I suppose technically you could call the last (even) row of the pouch a k3 instead of jumping straight back to I-cord?

    Thanks jeffrey, timann, evoli.

    Interesting experience with the shrinkage! Nylon can do some strange things with moisture and heat, although most think of the synthetics as pretty "permanent". Some of the nylon fishing trawls I work with shrink something fierce as they age, but I hadn't made that connection! Braided twine is particularly bad - it seems to "bulk" up and get proportionally shorter as grit gets into it and some of the fibres break. I really like the idea of shrinking/fulling/felting knit slings... Would work a treat in wool to really toughen one up, and give you a finished gauge that would otherwise be near-impossible to knit!

    peacefuljeffrey: One of the more interesting projects I've been involved with. A long time ago I designed some very specialised machinery to dehair and process muskox wool with the idea that it would serve as the basis for a small local industry in the Canadian arctic. At one point we had most of a small woolen mill running in the lab.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 6:53pm

    peacefuljeffrey wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 2:07am:
    Many thanks to Matthias for his exceptional sling design, and to him and others for their assistance. :)
    I could not have done this without the help that has been graciously given.

    I believe this is now far and away my favorite sling design.

    For my first sling I knit the fingerloop, my mother spliced it together, I knit the first I-cord, and my mother did the pouch and finished it "because I was taking so long". The next 2 slings I made I gradually learned how to do more from her until I finally made one by myself months later. You did your sling without any physical help, and did it by yourself the first time. I think you were minimally whiny given how little help you had. ;)

    My later slings have been #21 seine twine on 3 mm needles, and I have plans for a flat Garter stitch fingerloop sling.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 9:58pm
    Timann, if your mother is willing to knit you a sling, would she be willing to teach you the skills to do it yourself? I think you'll get a huge amount of satisfaction from having done it yourself. I personally always feel happier being able to make or do something for myself than have it done for me (although of course that's not always feasible).

    Sorry about pictures -- it may take a little while before I get the chance to post some, since I don't have home internet service (I've been posting from my iPhone lately, for the most part). I do want to share it, though; I don't think I've ever been prouder of a sling I made.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 10:13pm
    Masiakasaurus, thanks for putting that into perspective. When I look at it in terms of having gone, in one week, from thinking, "This is something that's simply outside of what I have the capacity to do," to actually starting and finishing one in two nights, I guess it is a pretty proud accomplishment.

    In fact, when I started knitting the yellow twine into an I-cord, I wasn't really fully believing that it would end up being a complete, functional sling. I thought, when I started, that I might just be puttering around!

    Now I need to select and obtain a new material for the next sling. You guys have been talking about #18 seine twine, etc. What is that, what does the number mean, what's it made of, and where do you typically find it for sale?

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 11:22pm
    #18 Seine Twine is a kind of mason line made from nylon. The #18 is a size measurement that is prominent on the packaging. I buy mine from Ace Hardware, but I've seen it in Lowes.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 23rd, 2010 at 3:46am

    Masiakasaurus wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 11:22pm:
    #18 Seine Twine is a kind of mason line made from nylon. The #18 is a size measurement that is prominent on the packaging. I buy mine from Ace Hardware, but I've seen it in Lowes.



    I'll check around for it soon. Your information that it displays "#18" prominently will surely help.

    The stuff I used is from the mason twine area at The Home Depot, so for all I know maybe it's the same and I just didn't know it.

    I plan to get some in white and use RIT dye to
    make it blue.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by timann on Aug 23rd, 2010 at 12:32pm
    I`ll admit you`re right, peacefuljeffrey, I`ll have to put "learning to knit" on my to-do list :).  
    Don`t think I`ll knit a sling before first Christmas, though ;)
    timann

    PS I went over to my mother and had her teach me the basic of knitting.  
    I learned how to get a basic work started, but appearently I need a couple more lessons before I can knit a sling :D.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 24th, 2010 at 5:18am
    Timann, congratulations on getting on your way with knitting.
    Lucky you for getting to learn from your mother.

    That was my plan -- to have my mom teach me to knit. But it didn't occur to me that I wanted that until she got sick. Her health declined too quickly and soon she was gone, so when I was ready, I went to a yarn store and signed up for a beginner class. In my mind, it was to honor her, and in addition to that, it's something I did feel made sense to know how to do. Now it's something I love knowing how to do.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 24th, 2010 at 6:26am
    So, I finished a new sling (#2) tonight, made of thin hemp twine.
    It came out ok, but since it's hemp, it has some thick and thin spots. I guess it will be a functional sling, but to be blunt, I'm always skeptical about how well natural fiber will hold up. It doesn't seem as tough as other slings I've made of pretty well-wearing nylon paracord or utility cord. Those have never shown wear. But, I've wanted a natural material sling for a while and now I have one.

    I love the idea that this sling is made of a single strand of a single material all the way through from end to end. :)  That is one of the main charms of this design for me.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by timann on Aug 24th, 2010 at 2:33pm
    Since this thread kicked me into learning how to knit, I`ll show result of my first steps here; my best rectangle so far :D
    timann
    DSC00094.JPG (192 KB | )

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 24th, 2010 at 6:18pm
    Timann, it is awesome for me to witness a nascent knitter getting started.
    I am very happy for you! I know that you will find being able to knit to be an enrichment of your life. :)

    Your sample there looks very good! Is that hemp? Make sure to forgive yourself for any irregularity in your gauge when you knit hemp; I've found it is notoriously tough to work with, and the gauge is very sensitive to even small variations in your needle work. I think it's because it doesn't stretch and then spring back as you go.

    So, have you learned how to bind off? That's crucial to know, but fortunately it's easy to learn. (It isn't something you'll need for the sling, though.) I think it's one of the knitting tools that can be done in an assortment of ways, too, just like casting on. I haven't yet learned a whole lot of different ones. Most times you can get away with knowing just a few, it seems.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 24th, 2010 at 11:26pm

    Masiakasaurus wrote on Aug 22nd, 2010 at 11:22pm:
    #18 Seine Twine is a kind of mason line made from nylon. The #18 is a size measurement that is prominent on the packaging. I buy mine from Ace Hardware, but I've seen it in Lowes.


    Can you tell me if the stuff you get is twisted or braided?

    The yellow stuff I used is braided -- and I much prefer it because it behaves right and won't untwist.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 24th, 2010 at 11:28pm
    It's twisted, but I've not had any problems with untwisting.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 24th, 2010 at 11:38pm
    I just emailed you a picture of my sling.  I'm not able to post it to a hosting site like Photobucket right now because of my hobbled internet situation, but eventually I will.  If you'd care to, you have my permission to post it here, in the meanwhile.


    As for the #18 seine twine ... I once bought a spool of cord (it's gone now and I don't remember what ever happened to it) that was very dark brown, almost black, that was sold in an outdoor sporting goods store.  I think it was intended as line for pulling duck decoys.  It was almost waxed, I think.  I bet it would have been good for use as knitted sling material.  It was flexible, but somewhat stiff -- stiffer than the mason's twine I've used, anyway.  And I remember it being quite tough.  I'll have to see about getting more of it.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 24th, 2010 at 11:52pm
    Could that twine have been tarred? That's what Matthias's knit slings used to be made of, tarred twine.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 24th, 2010 at 11:54pm
    Well, I can't be sure.  I don't remember it being particularly sticky, but I guess it kind of was. ... I think it did sort of stick to itself on the spool.
    But I don't know if that means it fits the description that is meant when he talks about "tarred" twine.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 24th, 2010 at 11:56pm

    Masiakasaurus wrote on Aug 24th, 2010 at 11:28pm:
    It's twisted, but I've not had any problems with untwisting.


    In my experience, it's easier to work with braided line in almost all respects (unless of course you're splicing three-strand twisted rope, or making a grommet).  In particular, it's troublesome to work with twisted line and knitting needles because of the tendency of the needle tips to catch within the twisted strands and split them.  That happens less with braided line.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by Matthias on Aug 25th, 2010 at 9:49am
    It does sound like you had "tarred" twine. It's really nice stuff to work with, really, and I like the colour and the way it weathers/breaks in.

    The tar is only barely sticky fresh off the roll. It's added to increase the UV/weather resistance of the twine, make handling easier and greatly increase the knot holding properties of the twine. A bit of a hold-over from when fishing twines were organic, and tar was liberally used to stop the nets from rotting. The bonded twine that I used for the latest example is white nylon coated/impregnated with a clear, slightly sticky waxy substance with a similar result. The twine holds together, doesn't kink or unravel, is more more wear resistant and a bit stiffer. We use a green version too that has a dry finish?

    An option that might lend similar properties to "soft" nylon would be to treat the sling (easier than doing the twine) with a knot treatment. The commercial stuff is purpose made and comes in giant containers of concentrate, but we've used diluted "Weldbond" pva glue and it seems to do the trick. Thinned to consistency of milk, painted on or dipped and then allowed to dry.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by timann on Aug 25th, 2010 at 1:28pm

    peacefuljeffrey wrote on Aug 24th, 2010 at 6:18pm:
    Timann, it is awesome for me to witness a nascent knitter getting started.
    I am very happy for you! I know that you will find being able to knit to be an enrichment of your life. :)

    Your sample there looks very good! Is that hemp? Make sure to forgive yourself for any irregularity in your gauge when you knit hemp; I've found it is notoriously tough to work with, and the gauge is very sensitive to even small variations in your needle work. I think it's because it doesn't stretch and then spring back as you go.

    So, have you learned how to bind off? That's crucial to know, but fortunately it's easy to learn. (It isn't something you'll need for the sling, though.) I think it's one of the knitting tools that can be done in an assortment of ways, too, just like casting on. I haven't yet learned a whole lot of different ones. Most times you can get away with knowing just a few, it seems.

    The piece here is some two-tone white/gray wool.  Hemp and nylon/polyester is waiting for their turn.  And yes, I learned how to bind it off.  Hey, after learning to braid with 16 and 24 strands knitting is in fact somewhat managable.
    timann

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by Matthias on Aug 25th, 2010 at 8:24pm


    Thanks Masiaka! Seriously nice work jeffrey - the results certainly belie any (we knew it all along) protestations of (alleged) incompetence! ;D

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 26th, 2010 at 1:12am
    LOL! Well, there were times I was feeling that way. I consider myself lucky that they didn't last -- counting my blessings, I am.  :D

    Thanks for the compliment and for posting the picture on my behalf. :)

    I haven't gotten out to actually use this sling. It seems to be quite sound overall, and I know there will be zero chance of dropped ammo. Ironically, my only concern is that of the possibility of having ammo hang up in the pouch during release because it's quite deep in the belly.

    Matthias, have you ever had such a problem with unclean releases?

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 29th, 2010 at 11:16pm
    Timann, I'm wondering how your knitting is coming along. :)

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by timann on Aug 30th, 2010 at 1:38pm

    peacefuljeffrey wrote on Aug 29th, 2010 at 11:16pm:
    Timann, I'm wondering how your knitting is coming along. :)

    My knitting is coming along surprisingly well.  Thanks for kicking me into this :)
    After I knitted an very even rectangle of hemp my mother declared me proficient at knitting, and finally told me how to add and remove stuff.  My latest piece is a small wool piece which I tapered in both ends, like a tiny sling pouch, when I want to I should be able to knit an real solid pouch now.
    timann

    AND I can do the three-stitch I-cord thing.  I browsed through this thread again, clicked a link provided by Masiakasurus, watched the video, and could suddenly do it myself.  
    Though when I look at the 2" I just knitted, I realice I could benefit from some further practice :D
    timann

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Aug 30th, 2010 at 6:08pm
    I'm glad I helped inspire you.
    Congratulations to you for learning a new and useful skill! :)
    You're learning a lot more a lot sooner than it took me.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Sep 5th, 2010 at 4:01am
    I made a good find at walmart tonight, so I'll share it.

    In the knitting section, they have spools of nylon crochet thread that appears to be a very good substitute for the mason's twine that I used for my yellow sling. It cost $3.47 for 150 yards -- not bad. The package says it's "#18." I'll be using my 7mm needles again, since they gave me a satisfying result last time (and walmart didn't have any 4mm ones for me to try).

    Although I do like the look of my yellow sling, the crochet thread I found is BLACK, and for a sling, yellow's got nothing on black!  :D
    I have not seen black mason's twine when I've browsed at The Home Depot -- only white, yellow and pink. (Not even blue! I was going to get some more white twine and dye it blue with RIT dye.)

    So I just began the I-cord for my third knitted sling. Probably by tomorrow early Monday I'll have the sling completed.  :)

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Sep 5th, 2010 at 8:38am
    *sigh*

    Now that I have the black twine, I found it impossible to force myself to go to bed tonight.
    Instead, I stayed up and finished the finger loop, retention cord, pouch, and one inch of the release cord.

    Some time on Sunday, I'll finish the sling.

    The #18 crochet thread is thinner than the yellow mason's twine from before. I used the same stitch pattern, so the gauge is smaller, and thus the cords are thinner and the pouch is smaller.

    That's good, though, since the sling will mostly be used for golf balls, and the pouch on the yellow sling is almost too big. The ball almost gets lost in it. I still have yet to get out and sling with the yellow sling, so I don't know if the release will be clean or not.

    I'm very confident about the size compatibility of the Black Mamba's pouch.
    (Yes, that's what I'm naming this sling -- the "Black Mamba.") :D

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Sep 6th, 2010 at 3:54am
    I finished the "Black Mamba" on Sunday evening. It came out great! Pouch sized just perfectly for a golf ball, and will also surely be well-suited for some other slightly smaller ammo, like the bonbon-shaped glass planter marbles I've bought at walmart.

    I am really looking forward to getting out to use this sling! :D

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by Masiakasaurus on Sep 6th, 2010 at 2:26pm

    peacefuljeffrey wrote on Sep 6th, 2010 at 3:54am:
    I finished the "Black Mamba" on Sunday evening. It came out great! Pouch sized just perfectly for a golf ball, and will also surely be well-suited for some other slightly smaller ammo, like the bonbon-shaped glass planter marbles I've bought at walmart.

    I am really looking forward to getting out to use this sling! :D

    :D I'm glad I could help you, and that you are helping timann! I wanna see the Black Mamba, and timann's sling (when it's finished) too!

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Sep 6th, 2010 at 3:18pm
    I'm eternally grateful for the the help, guidance and encouragement you guys gave to me. I would not have been able to make these awesome slings, otherwise.

    I'll take a few pictures of the Black Mamba later on and email them to you like before, ok? :)

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by Masiakasaurus on Sep 6th, 2010 at 3:41pm

    peacefuljeffrey wrote on Sep 6th, 2010 at 3:18pm:
    I'm eternally grateful for the the help, guidance and encouragement you guys gave to me. I would not have been able to make these awesome slings, otherwise.

    I'll take a few pictures of the Black Mamba later on and email them to you like before, ok? :)

    Perfect. and I'll post them in the pics thread.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Sep 10th, 2010 at 4:15am
    Tonight as I left work and was heading to my car in the back parking lot, I grabbed three rocks from the railbed of the railroad tracks. Three rocks about 1.5 - 2 in. diameter, and a guess of maybe 4 oz.(?)

    The lot is large -- easily over a football field in length and almost as wide. Only one other car left there at midnight besides mine. So I took out my yellow knitted sling and loaded it up for
    its first use.  :D

    At first, all I did was let the rock fall out of the pouch to the ground. I wanted to make sure that there was no indication that it might catch in the pouch and fail to fly free (which could be disastrous). It seemed totally fine, so I proceeded for throwing.

    Let me tell you, maybe it's the fact that it was dense rock instead of my usual golf balls, but I put nearly nothing on the throw, and still the rock went easily 100 feet. I'm talking about seriously curtailed effort involved. Each of the three throws made high, slow arcs -- because I was very concerned about over-distancing right outta the lot. I have a feeling that when I can take this sling, or the Black Mamba, out afield, it's going to do some scary, scary things when I can cut loose with it! :D

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Sep 12th, 2010 at 1:37am
    Happily, I am on Long Island. I arrived on Saturday afternoon, and went for a ride with my dad and my best friend to Long Beach in my home town, Smithtown. The north shore Long Island beaches were put there by glaciers and are ultra-well-stocked with very sweet slinging stones.

    I didn't get a whole lot of time there, but I did get a chance to try out my knitted "Black Mamba" sling. It did really well, and the limitations at this point appear to be (as I expected) my own rustiness, the unevenness of the sand, my apprehension at having people nearby, and the uncertainty that the finger loop was tight enough to stay on my finger.

    I'll make a more snug loop on the next sling, just for a little additional security, even
    though this one didn't really come near to falling off.

    I am almost finished with another Black Mamba to give to my brother when I see him on Nantucket on Tuesday. Gonna give him a lesson if he's interested.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Sep 29th, 2010 at 2:27am
    Well, I got to do only a minimal amount of slinging on my vacation.
    I did give the second Black Mamba to my brother, but he's pulled in a lot of different directions, attention-wise, these days, so he didn't get around to taking a lesson. (I recently sent him a link to Brian Grubbs' Figure-8 video, though.)

    I'm currently working on knitted sling #6; these things are a lot of fun to make! :D

    So far, I've made the yellow one, a hemp one, the original Black Mamba, my brother's Black Mamba, another longer hemp one (42"), and now a third Black Mamba (~45").

    Still haven't gone out with golf balls to try them out, although I did sling about 10-15 rocks into Long Island Sound on 9/11/10, and also about 20 into Nantucket Harbor a week later. I'm looking forward to using a 40-someodd inch Black Mamba with golf balls, really. That, and I'm going to be refining my technique more along the lines of Brian's. I realized that I haven't been doing the "step-into" portion of his Figure-8.

    Perhaps this weekend, I'll find the time to get out to sling a bit.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Oct 3rd, 2010 at 10:36pm
    Woot! I finally got out with the Black Mamba and some golf balls and had a good time whacking the wall of my local amphitheater! :)

    The sling feels really good. It's like the teddy bear of slings -- since it's made of soft nylon cord that's knitted, it has a soft feel to my hand as I load it. And the finger loop is soft and comfortable.

    I was a little rusty, and I did put a bunch of shots into the grass ten yards away. But then I tried hard to focus on smooth, fluid motion without trying to put full power on them. The shots got better, and gradually, I increased the speed/power and finally had some good whizzers. I need to get out and practice practice practice a lot more. I am certain that the limiting factor at this point is ME: the sling is capable of way more performance than I am, right now.


    edit:  I suspect that the light traffic that this thread is seeing may be due to the idea that knitting a sling is one of the more challenging, technique-intensive methods.

    How about this:  If any of you find yourselves in the vicinity of Palm Beach County, Florida, send me a message and we'll meet up for lunch; in an afternoon, I can have you knitting slings.  I really think that's possible.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by timann on Oct 8th, 2010 at 1:37pm
    My....knitting is going rather well, I think I got the necessary tecniques well in hand, but I have not yet found the time to begin or the right material for it.  So I just keep practicing, to not be rusty when the right time comes.
    timann

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Oct 8th, 2010 at 7:11pm
    If you are talking about looking for material to use for a knitted sling, I can help.

    Go to The Home Depot and get some "mason's twine."  It's very inexpensive, and one spool can make at least several slings.
    The colors you'll find tend to be limited to white, bright yellow, and bright pink.

    Alternatively, if you want black (I love black), go to Walmart and go to the knitting/crocheting section, and look for "crochet thread."  There are different kinds, so look for the kind that is nylon.  I bought a spool for $4.27, and it has made two Black Mamba slings and still has enough left for at least one more, possibly two.  Oh, and if you use this stuff, I recommend size 11 double-ended needles, which should be 7mm.  The gauge from that combination is very appropriate for the sling.  Most times, such needles come in packs of four or five.  (You'll need either two or three as you knit the sling.)

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by Caldou on Aug 28th, 2011 at 3:07pm
    I learnt to knit with this fun little project... And it became my favorite sling (ok, that's mainly because it is the first not-too-crappy-looking one, but also because it is really a great design :P ).

    I made it from one skein of cotton rope, and it works wonderfully with tennis ball and stones.


    But do you think I can translate it into french knitting terminology ? and more, put it into Ravelry, the knitting network, while obviously mentionning Matthias and slinging.org (and even with a link ^^ ) ? Yes, i'm one of the "make people sling and the world will be better" kind ;)

    I tried to contact him... but no answer :-[ so, what do you think of this ?

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by Masiakasaurus on Aug 28th, 2011 at 11:55pm
    Sounds fine to me. BTW, send a friend request to Masiakasaurus on Ravelry so I can see the pattern when you're done.

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Sep 3rd, 2011 at 8:03pm
    I am trying to figure out why I ever would have said to use "size 11 / 7mm" needles, because I just looked and saw that the needles I've used for this were size 5 / 3.75 mm. Sorry if I caused anyone any confusion or frustration.

    Meanwhile, it's been many months since I knitted a sling, and this type of memory tends to fall out of my head if unused (as do the techniques for many turk's head knots, I've found). I'm trying to re-figure out the casting-on steps for making the i-cord strands. ...

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by Eoraptor on Sep 3rd, 2011 at 9:41pm
    I tried to learn how to knit so I could make this sling.  I can make a flat... scarf-ey looking thing but something of this awesome still eludes me.


    peacefuljeffrey wrote on Oct 3rd, 2010 at 10:36pm:
    Black Mamba

    All I can think of...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flEG4fpzRCA

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:43pm

    Eoraptor wrote on Sep 3rd, 2011 at 9:41pm:
    I tried to learn how to knit so I could make this sling.  I can make a flat... scarf-ey looking thing but something of this awesome still eludes me.



    I brought out my materials the other night and literally had to relearn a major portion of how to make one of these. I now have one in progress.
    I had to relearn how to start the i-cord (the tubular knit pattern for the cords) and then how to do the increases and decreases in the pouch. The thing that gets me through the fear (of not being able to do again something that I once was able to do) is the experience of having come through difficult learning processes before. That, and the patience that I learned when (as you can see earlier in this thread) I went from, "I'll never be able to learn to make this sling!" to "Holy moly, I've just finished one and it came out great!" in a period of days. I no longer expect instant gratification; I have learned to allow the process to take the time that it needs.

    I wish that I could sit down with an eager student and walk him through this sling. That, OR I wish that I had the right equipment to be able to make some good quality tutorial videos that would walk someone through how to knit this.

    Invitation is still extended to anyone who comes into the southern Florida area, to trade sling knowledge and launch some golf balls.  I'd travel up to about 100 miles, I think, if a meet-up were planned.  If it's a possibility for anyone, let me know.  I am indeed willing to teach any newbie who needs it how to:
    - make a PJ Sling
    - make a Woven Pouch Sling
    - make a seatbelt sling


    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by peacefuljeffrey on Sep 11th, 2011 at 1:00am
    .... and of course how to make a knitted sling. (I somehow forgot that one in my list, there.)

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by Caldou on Oct 8th, 2011 at 12:20pm
    At least, the translation in finished...

    For now, you can find it on my blog, with all my blabbering in french ^^.
    The hard part was to find the right translation for all the technical parts : No 18 seine twine... we don't have this in France :p Or not under this name and i can't seem to find a correct translation :(

    I'm working on making a nice pdf out of it, and i will soon put it on ravelry ^^

    BTW, does anyone know why the second one's pouch (the whitest one in the picture) is not left-right symetrical ?  :-?

    Title: Re:  From net to knit...
    Post by Masiakasaurus on Oct 8th, 2011 at 11:16pm

    Caldou wrote on Oct 8th, 2011 at 12:20pm:
    At least, the translation in finished...

    For now, you can find it on my blog, with all my blabbering in french ^^.
    The hard part was to find the right translation for all the technical parts : No 18 seine twine... we don't have this in France :p Or not under this name and i can't seem to find a correct translation :(

    I'm working on making a nice pdf out of it, and i will soon put it on ravelry ^^

    BTW, does anyone know why the second one's pouch (the whitest one in the picture) is not left-right symetrical ?  :-?

    The technique used to increase and decrease the number of stitches makes it look not symmetrical. I've made both symmetrical and asymmetrical pouches and they throw the same.

    P.S. #18 is just the most common size of mason line, and seine twine is just mason line coated in tar so that it can be made into a fishing net (a seine) that won't rot. If I remember right, #18 mason line is about 2mm in diameter.

    Title: Re: From net to knit...
    Post by Caldou on Dec 12th, 2013 at 3:33pm
    And now, I published the sling pattern on Ravelry :
    http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/knitted-sling

    If you feel like I should change something on it, tell me, I will do it :)
    And Masi, you should at least add this pattern in your favorites AND projects ;)

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