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Message started by JeffH on Dec 6th, 2003 at 11:15am

Title: Lead glandes molds
Post by JeffH on Dec 6th, 2003 at 11:15am
Memphis Net and Twine carries molds for lead fishing sinker.  They have a variety including [canon] ball and egg sinkers.  They also have finished sinkers on the same page as the molds.  This is the mold and sinker page. They have several sizes including the 3 to 6 ounce we seem to prefer.
http://www.memphisnet.net/10/FishCatalog/LeadMoldingEqpt.html

This is the home page if you are interested:
http://www.memphisnet.net/

They carry all the other equipment you will need for molding as well, like the melting pots.

Jeff <><

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by JeffH on Dec 6th, 2003 at 11:24am
Before anyone asks:

The hole through the middle of the egg sinkers will not have a deleterious effect on flight.  In fact this longitudinal hole was tried on bullets in the past and found to have no positive effect so it was not used.  But it did not cause problems of note either.

So,  a 4 ounce lead egg might just make for a very nice glande, eh?

jeff <><

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by David_T on Dec 6th, 2003 at 2:29pm
I was just going to ask about what was needed to mold glandes and where to get bulk lead, how to melt.... This info will help.

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by JeffH on Dec 6th, 2003 at 8:50pm
Lead is available is a variety of places.  Look for hunting/reloading supply places on the web or locally in your town. It generally comes in ingots.  You might try finding some fishing weights on sale and remelting them. Also, you could try to come by some old, used wheel weights.  They are fairly soft and should melt at lower temps.  Put them in the melting pot and pull out the steel clips when melted.

Two things here.  First, always remember to ventilate your work area well when working with lead and don't touch it if you can help it.  If hot it will burn you and is more likely to poison you as well.  The vapors or liquid will get you quicker.  You might consider painting or coating them in some way also.

Second, let the lead out of the mold while still hot but just after it stiffens up.  Drop it right into a bucket of cold water.  This will harden it up some so the glandes don't deform against each other in your pouch.  This hardening technique will take a bit of practice, but you should get the hang of it pretty quickly.

jeff <><

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by David_T on Dec 7th, 2003 at 2:26pm
Jeff,

Thanks for that input! I have never molded lead before. By the way, how do you clean out the melting pot after using it? Does the lead just harden and pop off?

I saw some pics on this site of a wooden mold. Does it last very long? Could you make 50, 100, 200 batches with the same mold?

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by JeffH on Dec 7th, 2003 at 2:40pm
David,

As for the lead coming out of the pot, it should come out pretty easily if the pot remains smooth.  So don't scratch it.  Check out as many web resources as you can.  There should be plenty of info on lead casting to answer all your questions.

My personal experience is actually quite limited.  I know more than I have done.  Having hand loaded for guns, I have come across tons of info that I have not yet put into practice.

I quickly learned that I liked to shoot at velocities much higher than were practical with lead.  In handguns it is marginal at best unless handled right:  gas checks, hard cast bullets and lower velocities.  In rifles lead is a joke.  Somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 fps it melts in the bore from friction and the burning powder and bullets can literally disintegrate and become spray as they leave the barrell.

jeff <><

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by David_T on Dec 7th, 2003 at 4:53pm
That reminds me of a guy I know. I believe he had a Ruger Red Hawk 44mag handgun or something. He loaded his own rounds to make them really hot. About evey other shot you would "double shot" because the recoil made you pull the trigger again :o

He video taped himself showing off his gun as he shot a small tree in two. Of course the tree almost falls on top of the people watching, and as they are running away, the tree hits his porch roof.

His 10 year old son kept bugging him to shoot it so he put just one round in for safety. The kid learned a lesson. He came to church that evening with a bandage between his eyes where the gun came back on recoil and nailed him :o Boys and their toys.

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by JeffH on Dec 7th, 2003 at 7:05pm
At the velocities your friend is shooting, lead would fill the grooves in the bore and foul things up pretty badly.  This actually increases pressure because of the resistance to the bullets.

He is probably uses jacketed bullets, of course, but some folks use lead at those vels. anyway.

jeff <><

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by Chris on Dec 8th, 2003 at 1:11am
Gun's are cool, but I'm happy with my sling and bow.  You can't beat the thrill of shooting, but the satisfaction of a good sling is unbeatable.  

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by JeffH on Dec 8th, 2003 at 9:38pm
Agreed, Chris, slinging is mighty satisfactory.

I love almost any activity which involves throwing things though.  And shooting is really fun.

jeff <><

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by David_T on Dec 8th, 2003 at 11:47pm
I'll second or third that. And those chunks of concrete are just a bit cheaper than gun ammo!!

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by David_T on Dec 22nd, 2003 at 9:03am
There is a picture on this site somewhere of what looks to be an oak board mold for making lead glandes.

Does anyone know who made it? If I were to router out two halves and make a football shape mold, does anyone know how long it would last or how I would use it to make glands?

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by nwmanitou on Dec 22nd, 2003 at 11:16am
I've always wondered if Plaster of Paris would stand up to the heat, if so, it would be cheap and easy to make.

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by Yurek on Dec 22nd, 2003 at 3:14pm
David,

I used the plaster two-piece mold and a the plasticine (and a modelling paste lately) patterns. It is cheap, easy and exact enough.

Jurek


Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by nwmanitou on Dec 22nd, 2003 at 6:21pm
Come to think of it, I wonder if Plater Of Paris would make great glandes? It seems heavy enough. Of course it would just powder if it hit something hard enough.  but hey, I've always wanted to see how one of those would fly.

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by David_T on Dec 22nd, 2003 at 9:16pm
Thank you. Can you use the paster mold many times?

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by Gaius_Cornelius on Dec 23rd, 2003 at 9:42am

wrote on Dec 22nd, 2003 at 11:16am:
I've always wondered if Plaster of Paris would stand up to the heat, if so, it would be cheap and easy to make.

I have successfully used a two-part plaster-of-Paris mould to cast lead. It is really quite straightforward. It is of course very important that the mold is completly dry before you try to use it. Leave it for plenty of time to set and dry, then bake in a low oven to get the last bit of moisture out.

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by Yurek on Dec 23rd, 2003 at 10:25am
It's right. If the plaster is dry and hasn't bubbles, you may use such mold many times end could get good results. My last one (4 glandes) I have used 7 times.  

Jurek

Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by Gaius_Cornelius on Dec 29th, 2003 at 8:20am
As mentioned before, plaster-of-Paris does work well as a mould for lead.

It should be easy to make a mould using the lost wax method. Make one or more glandes in wax. Beeswax is easier but given the simplicity of the shape paraffin wax (from a candle) may do. Warm wax is easy to shape by hand. To the basic almond shape, add a cone that will form the pouring hole.

Make up some plaster and half fill a suitable container such as a plastic butter/margarine package. Take care to avoid bubbles. Push the wax master glades halfway into the plaster such that exactly half the cone is in the plaster and the pouring hole will be near one side of the mould. As the plaster sets, make two holes in the wet plaster at either end of the mould, these should be in the shape of truncated cones and will eventually form locating lugs. When the plaster is set, put a thin layer of oil over the surface of the plaster and then fill to the top with liquid plaster and allow the whole thing to set. When set, remove from plastic container and allow to dry slowly.

Because of the layer of oil, the two halves of the mould should separate easily and the wax can be removed by gentle heating. Of course, be aware that both oil and wax will smoke when heated and are highly flammable. Open up the pouring hole (or holes) by removing plaster as required.

You will have a two-part mould complete with locating lugs and pouring hole.

I think I am right in recalling that symbols and letters are excised on glandes (that is to say they stand out on the surface as opposed to be inscribed). This would certainly suggest that the moulds were inscribed, so now is the time to scratch you design into the mould.

Make sure that your mould is completely dry; clamp the two halves securely together and pre-warm it to 100 C or so. Molten lead can be poured in. The mould will be imperfect, so air should not have any difficulty escaping. You will be left with a certain amount of flash that can be removed with a good knife.

Presumably, moulds from antiquity would have been clay that would have been fired. These could have been formed around a master that might itself have been made of some quite hard material - such as lead! I don't know if any remains of ancient glandes moulds have ever been found. If the ancients used masters made from a soft material such as wax, it occurs to me that the almond shape might have had as much to do with ease of manufacture as actual performance as a missile.


Title: Re: Lead glandes molds
Post by JeffH on Dec 29th, 2003 at 12:00pm
My friend Gaius has just reminded me of something incredible.

See my post "plastic glandes mold" which will appear shortly.

jeff <><

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